More ammo for gun control!

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More ammo for gun control!

Postby KeithE » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:47 pm

Rapid-fire, assault-style weapons were used to kill at least 58 and injured 515 in Las Vegas. This is the worst mass shooting in American history.

There is no need for such weapons in self-protection or hunting or target shooting, the chief excuses to own weapons.

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Nevada has some of the most relaxed gun laws allowing open carry, concealed weapons, and rapid-fire machine guns.

When will we ever learn????

As for most Americans - they want stricter gun control (55% wants stricter laws, 10% want laxer laws).

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That does not make it right. But reducing our disgraceful level of firearm deaths in this country ought to be a Congressional mandate.

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Gun deaths are 653X more prevalent than deaths resulting from terrorism.

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Just had to add some plots to show the magnitude of the problem. :wink:
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby William Thornton » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:43 pm

Any word for the 515 wounded or families of the 58 killed before we do a deep dive into the politics?
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby KeithE » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:59 pm

William Thornton wrote:Any word for the 515 wounded or families of the 58 killed before we do a deep dive into the politics?


Your “question” is disingenuous and you know it. Even you can find what is known about the dead families and wounded.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby William Thornton » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:34 pm

Perhaps a word about the miscreant murderer?

Right. Neither victims nor the assailant concerns you.

Got it.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby William Thornton » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:04 pm

Keith, it's a terrible thing for the victims, families, and country. Wouldn't it be a prudent thing to allow a day or so before you inflict a bunch of graphs on the few people here and start your lecture? Give it some thought. Your instincts are just haywire sometimes.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby KeithE » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:19 pm

William Thornton wrote:Keith, it's a terrible thing for the victims, families, and country. Wouldn't it be a prudent thing to allow a day or so before you inflict a bunch of graphs on the few people here and start your lecture? Give it some thought. Your instincts are just haywire sometimes.

Stalling tactics are just that. Waiting until well after each of several mass murders in the US has not resulted in any meaningful gun control action. Excessive gun violence/death in the US (much more than any other developed country) has been going a long time.

I’m with Senator Chris Murphy here.
The Sandy Hook senator has a blunt message: 'It's time for Congress to get off its ass and do something'

Chris Murphy is unapologetically playing politics in the wake of the largest mass shooting in modern American history Sunday night in Las Vegas.

"It is positively infuriating that my colleagues in Congress are so afraid of the gun industry that they pretend there aren't public policy responses to this epidemic," the Connecticut Democratic senator said in a statement released Monday. "There are, and the thoughts and prayers of politicians are cruelly hollow if they are paired with continued legislative indifference. It's time for Congress to get off its ass and do something.”

Murphy went even further via Twitter just after noon eastern. "To my colleagues: your cowardice to act cannot be whitewashed by thoughts and prayers," he tweeted. "None of this ends unless we do something to stop it.”


My sense is that the families and the wounded would have liked past gun control laws enacted and would be amped up to do something about it now. Most of those in mourning have other thoughts at this time and that is not interfered with by calling for action.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby Sandy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:00 pm

A guy gets 10 rifles modified by an easily attainable gadget into a hotel room on the 32 floor, and knocks down over 600 people in a matter of minutes, murdering 59 of them. So when do we have that discussion?
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby Jim » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:17 pm

As a result of Las Vegas, gun-stores will be flooded tomorrow by new buyers. This killer played it cool and positioned himself so that a handgun--or any gun--could not be used in defense until he was found, but this most often is not the case. There will also be a lot of applicants for concealed-carry and who can blame them? Perhaps some sort of "dialogue" will be set up so ordinary citizens can ease the roiled waters with whoever is available for a chat. Chicago Mayor Rahm would be ideal as a moderator. Never let a crisis be wasted, according to him, and he should know because his city lives in bullet-riddled crisis-mode 24/7, handguns being preferred or an occasional knifing-tool.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby Sandy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:48 pm

KeithE wrote:My sense is that the families and the wounded would have liked past gun control laws enacted and would be amped up to do something about it ASAP. Most of those in mourning have other thoughts at this time and that is not interfered with by calling for action.


It didn't seem to bother Trump, who didn't wait to try to gain political capital when he was a candidate, following the Orlando shooting. Thanks for the stats. They're helpful.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby William Thornton » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:09 am

This is truly a ding dong, bat guano crazy moment.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby Mrs Haruo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:23 am

The first I knew that anything was going on was a Facebook post from one of our nieces saying "We are safe". They were in lock down in a theater close to the shooting, then were able to return to their hotel rooms.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby KeithE » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:41 am

William Thornton wrote:This is truly a ding dong, bat guano crazy moment.

What “moment” are you talking about?

Is it:
1. The whole Las Vegas shooting spree?
2. Baptist Life post(s) made on this topic?
3. Your eggs were cooked wrong this morning? :wink:

If it is 2., please:
(a) specify what post (or posts) is so "ding dong, bat guano crazy”
(b) explain what is so "ding dong, bat guano crazy” about what was said
(c) watch your language directed at follow BL posters (from your Moderator)
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby William Thornton » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:26 am

Had a nice bowl of cereal this morning. Not as good as eggs.

Hey, you're a smart guy and I appreciate a lot of your stuff. You are tone deaf here. Does it need to be explained?

Here's an alternate headline: "59 killed, over 500 wounded in bloody shooting. Worst in US history. Forum know-it-all ignores the gore, victims, first responders, community, national, and international outpouring and solves it all in one short post with some nice graphs."

Keep on trucking, bro. You left this planet long ago.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby KeithE » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:59 am

William Thornton wrote:Had a nice bowl of cereal this morning. Not as good as eggs.

Hey, you're a smart guy and I appreciate a lot of your stuff. You are tone deaf here. Does it need to be explained?

Here's an alternate headline: "59 killed, over 500 wounded in bloody shooting. Worst in US history. Forum know-it-all ignores the gore, victims, first responders, community, national, and international outpouring and solves it all in one short post with some nice graphs."

Keep on trucking, bro. You left this planet long ago.

"Tone deaf" again? "Left the Planet"? or is it "ding dong, bat guano crazy”.

Your tone is hostile, bro.

I had oatmeal and a slice of turkey.
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Ive called several members of the SC and Bama delegation

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:55 pm

And had a blowout this morning with the screener for fundamentalist radio talk in Bham 24 hours, the group that went after Tom Corts of Samford in 93. Also talked to the Presidents office of Samford University about their collegial relationship with Rick Burgess, Roy Moore supporters

Talk to the Alabama Baptist Keith and the SBOM. Call out Rick Lance on this matter, and the matter of NRA Champhion Steve Bannon on the ground in Bama for Roy Moore. Join me in approaching Nick Saban's St Francis Catholic Church. Join the Bonhoeffer movement in Bama to resist the Devil and All his minions, Roy Moore, fundy talk radio, the complicitous Baptist Church of the Highlands and all 14 campuses.

Will Bama be Struck Mute again like the 8 ministers to whom King sent the Letter from the Bham Jail in 63.

Are Bama Baptists just as ignorant and irrelevant as EVER?
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And for William Thornton

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:58 pm

Easy Google. Osnos, Selling the Politics of Fear, New Yorker

And Two Hillary Clinton, the NPR Fresh Air interview, second segment on the cabal of NRA Dark Money, the Mercers, Banon, Bossie, Citizens United who gave us Donald Trump

And Three another simple google, NYbooks.com, Devil's Bargain.

Four: Local Barnes and Noble, You can start with Buford if Athens not closer. Pulitzer Marilynne Robinson, The Givenness of Things, Essay Memory on Bonhoeffer.

I'm with Bonhoeffer, you can have Gray Allison, Jesse Helms and his Death Squads in El Salvador.
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Roxanne Cash comes out against NRA

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:37 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/opin ... abc-region

And see my blog on the soul molesting in Alabama
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby John Sneed » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:55 pm

Very simply, gun control, so called, does not work. It makes liberals happy because they think they have fixed the problem. It makes good people less safe, and criminals don't care about it anyway. In th end, it only creates more victims.

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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:28 pm

John Sneed wrote:Very simply, gun control, so called, does not work. It makes liberals happy because they think they have fixed the problem. It makes good people less safe, and criminals don't care about it anyway. In th end, it only creates more victims.

John Sneed


That's just not true, and can't be proven.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-co ... australia/
http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... tudy-finds

And in the US

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/ ... story.html
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:53 pm

The best way to honor the 58 dead in Las Vegas, the woman who died in the Nashville shooting, the kids at Sandy Hook, at the college in Oregon, the church in Charleston, and the hundreds who are victims of gun violence every day is to start the conversation now. Sitting around, offering "thoughts and prayers" and waiting until a more appropriate time is just a lack of will to resolve what is a life threatening problem. Those who genuinely believe in the sanctity of human life need to step up and take the lead.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:16 am

Keith -

Can you tell me what gun law can be passed that would have stopped the shooting in Las Vegas?

Or, the next one?
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby William Thornton » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:40 am

Sandy wrote:The best way to honor the 58 dead in Las Vegas, the woman who died in the Nashville shooting, the kids at Sandy Hook, at the college in Oregon, the church in Charleston, and the hundreds who are victims of gun violence every day is to start the conversation now. Sitting around, offering "thoughts and prayers" and waiting until a more appropriate time is just a lack of will to resolve what is a life threatening problem. Those who genuinely believe in the sanctity of human life need to step up and take the lead.


Actually, it shows a lack of respect, an appallingly deficient sense of tone and timing, and a crass display of political opportunism. There are a number of examples where respect has been shown and tone and timing have been employed properly.

If the goal is to move towards solutions then your way is counterproductive. What you and Keith need to do is to persuade people towards your positions. That would disarm the NRA. Instead this kind of crapola sends people to them.

You need a socialist strongman to carry out your political and social views. Keith is the man who would make a great emperor. We aren't in the market for either.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:07 am

William Thornton wrote:
Sandy wrote:The best way to honor the 58 dead in Las Vegas, the woman who died in the Nashville shooting, the kids at Sandy Hook, at the college in Oregon, the church in Charleston, and the hundreds who are victims of gun violence every day is to start the conversation now. Sitting around, offering "thoughts and prayers" and waiting until a more appropriate time is just a lack of will to resolve what is a life threatening problem. Those who genuinely believe in the sanctity of human life need to step up and take the lead.


Actually, it shows a lack of respect, an appallingly deficient sense of tone and timing, and a crass display of political opportunism. There are a number of examples where respect has been shown and tone and timing have been employed properly.

If the goal is to move towards solutions then your way is counterproductive. What you and Keith need to do is to persuade people towards your positions. That would disarm the NRA. Instead this kind of crapola sends people to them.

You need a socialist strongman to carry out your political and social views. Keith is the man who would make a great emperor. We aren't in the market for either.


Very good post William.

The compassion for the dead and wounded is missing when the gab becomes political so quickly.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby KeithE » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:56 am

Sandy wrote:The best way to honor the 58 dead in Las Vegas, the woman who died in the Nashville shooting, the kids at Sandy Hook, at the college in Oregon, the church in Charleston, and the hundreds who are victims of gun violence every day is to start the conversation now. Sitting around, offering "thoughts and prayers" and waiting until a more appropriate time is just a lack of will to resolve what is a life threatening problem. Those who genuinely believe in the sanctity of human life need to step up and take the lead.

Very good post Sandy.

The compassion for the dead and wounded is missing when future similar deaths continued to be not addressed along with a heavy dose of pious smokescreen ("thoughts and prayers”).


What’s wrong with both addressing future needless deaths while offering thoughts and prayers for the still struggling wounded and the still hurting family/friends of those killed. That truly honors (in two ways) those affected in the present situation.

If you truly cared about the dead, caused in part by easy access to rapid-fire gunnery, you would demand effective gun laws that would help lessen the extent of future mayhem.
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Re: More ammo for gun control!

Postby KeithE » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:56 am

Jon Estes wrote:Keith -

Can you tell me what gun law can be passed that would have stopped the shooting in Las Vegas?

Or, the next one?

Laws cannot perfectly eliminate a bad. Shall we do away with burglary laws since they have not 100% eliminated thefts?

I really don't know why I should answer questions from you Jon ( you have not replied to many questions from me - e.g. as your experience with universal health care in UAR or your friends experience with universal health care in their countries), but here goes (on the odd chance I make make some cons on BL think or at least inform more reasonable minds) .

Here are three areas of gun law that should be improved with legislation.

1) Registration - universal registration of every firearm in all states and those firearms coming into our country. And enhanced assessment of the current holdings by any individual and confiscation of excess gun holdings - still allowing a few pieces for legitimate self-protection and hunting. Paddock would have been identified and dealt with before even arriving at Las Vegas. Cross check registration against mental illness registries.

2) Eliminate rapid-fire guns - all automatic, semi-automatic guns and add-ons to enhance rapid-fire would not be allowed except for SWAT teams. Paddock would only have been able to pick off a few people. It would also give an advantage to police teams over criminals with guns.

3) Large venue checks - as with airports checks, we could have security guards pay extra surveillance whenever large crowds gather (ball games/concerts/political gatherings and high rises near these events). Dogs could sniff for explosives and ammunition (I’m not sure about that). Mandalay Bay could have checked baggage (including those golf bags). This could lead to more jobs. We certainly created more jobs with TSA airport screeners in response to 9/11, but we are ignoring the much more deadly internal death threat due to easy access to guns.

I’m no expert on guns or gun control. Fining tuning of these laws could be made by more knowledgable people and refined with implementation experience. No law will ever be perfect but we as a nation have what I thought was a shared goal - to “form a more prefect union” (Source: Preamble to the Constitution).

We have a major unaddressed imperfection (to say the least) in our union - that of gun deaths such as in the mass murders but also day by day. To irritate the cons (but also to try to breakthrough to the truth), I’ll repeat:

Image

Funny that the cons (on BL and elsewhere in punditry world) and the gun industry have not cried “socialism” with respect international terrorism control (which has been not eliminated but reduced by a factor of about 176 {3000/17}). The deaths caused by internal gun owning psychopaths are just as real to those affected.

Image

We can and should do better. If we got to the place of effectiveness of UK, that 11,101 numbers needless deaths would be down to 213 per year.
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