Assata Shakur

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Assata Shakur

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:10 am

I find it interesting that Kaepernick who many hail as a hero in all of this protest mess has given money to a charity honoring Assata Shakur. The cop killer who has fled to Cuba.

I'm sure some will have no problem with such a decision but for me, it assures me the reason he is doing this is not for the reason that has been presented in the press. He has lost his right to be heard - AFAIC.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby William Thornton » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:20 am

I recognized the name JoAnne Chesimard, Black Panther, Black Liberation Army from the 1970s.

Assata Shakur

Millionaire NFL player donates to underprivileged community...not including families of murdered police.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:15 am

Jon Estes wrote:I find it interesting that Kaepernick who many hail as a hero in all of this protest mess has given money to a charity honoring Assata Shakur. The cop killer who has fled to Cuba.

I'm sure some will have no problem with such a decision but for me, it assures me the reason he is doing this is not for the reason that has been presented in the press. He has lost his right to be heard - AFAIC.

Kaepernick has donated $700,000 to various causes out of the $1M he has pledged to give this year. Here is a summary of all those donations to date. Quite impressive, imo. The RW media has singled out one (Assata’s Daughters) and did not fairly describe that one.

Assata’s Daughters was given $25,000 out of the $700K. Their programs are given at their website and yes they are motivated by the life of Assata Shakur. (please read, today their programs are quite laudatory, imo).

It is true that Assata Shakur was convicted of killing a policeman in a 1977 NJ Turnpike incident on the basis of being in the automobile (stopped at a routine traffic stop) that resulted in the death of an officer and a friend of hers - she did not kill the officer herself by all accounts but under New Jersey's "aiding and abetting" statute, she was charged and convicted.

Read the account provided by Wikipedia which is well referenced:

On May 2, 1973, at about 12:45 a.m.,[53] Assata Shakur, along with Zayd Malik Shakur (born James F. Costan) and Sundiata Acoli (born Clark Squire), were stopped on the New Jersey Turnpike in East Brunswick for driving with a broken tail light by State Trooper James Harper, backed up by Trooper Werner Foerster in a second patrol vehicle.[54] The vehicle was also "slightly" exceeding the speed limit.[53][55] Recordings of Trooper Harper calling the dispatcher were played at the trials of both Acoli and Assata Shakur.[54][56] The stop occurred 200 yards (183 m) south of what was then the Turnpike Authority administration building.[53][56][57] Acoli was driving the two-door vehicle, Assata Shakur was seated in the right front seat, and Zayd Shakur was in the right rear seat.[58][a] Trooper Harper asked the driver for identification, noticed a discrepancy, asked him to get out of the car, and questioned him at the rear of the vehicle.[53]

It is at this point, with the questioning of Acoli, that the accounts of the confrontation begin to differ (see the witnesses section below).[59] However, in the ensuing shootout, Trooper Foerster was shot twice in the head with his own gun and killed,[54][59] Zayd Shakur was killed, and Assata Shakur and Trooper Harper were wounded.

According to initial police statements, at this point one or more of the suspects began firing with semiautomatic handguns and Trooper Foerster fired four times before falling mortally wounded.[53] At Acoli's trial, Harper testified that the gunfight started "seconds" after Foerster arrived at the scene.[58] At this trial, Harper said that Foerster reached into the vehicle, pulled out and held up a semi-automatic pistol and ammunition magazine, and said "Jim, look what I found",[58] while facing Harper at the rear of the vehicle.[60] At this point, Assata Shakur and Zayd Shakur were ordered to put their hands on their laps and not to move; Harper said that Assata Shakur then reached down to the right of her right leg, pulled out a pistol, and shot him in the shoulder, after which he retreated to behind his vehicle.[58] Questioned by prosecutor C. Judson Hamlin, Harper said he saw Foerster shot just as Assata Shakur was felled by bullets from Harper's gun.[58] Harper testified that Acoli shot Foerster with a .38 caliber semiautomatic pistol and then used Foerster's own gun to "execute him".[61] According to the testimony of State Police investigators, two jammed semi-automatic pistols were discovered near Foerster's body.[62]

Acoli then drove the car (a white Pontiac LeMans with Vermont license plates)[57]—which contained Assata Shakur, who was wounded, and Zayd Shakur, who was dead or dying—5 miles (8 km) down the road.[54][53] The vehicle was chased by three patrol cars and the booths down the turnpike were alerted.[53] Acoli then exited the car and, after being ordered to halt by a trooper, fled into the woods as the trooper emptied his gun.[53] Assata Shakur then walked towards the trooper with her bloodied arms raised in surrender.[53] Acoli was captured after a 36-hour manhunt—involving 400 people, state police helicopters, and bloodhounds.[53][63][64] Zayd Shakur's body was found in a nearby gully along the road.[53]

According to a New Jersey Police spokesperson, Assata Shakur was on her way to a "new hideout in Philadelphia" and "heading ultimately for Washington" and a book in the vehicle contained a list of potential BLA targets.[53] Assata Shakur testified that she was on her way to Baltimore for a job as a bar waitress.[65]

Assata Shakur, with gunshot wounds in both arms and a shoulder, was moved to Middlesex General Hospital under "heavy guard" and was reported to be in "serious condition"; Trooper Harper was wounded in the left shoulder, in "good" condition, and given a protective guard at the hospital.[53][63] Assata Shakur was interrogated and arraigned from her hospital bed,[66] and her medical care during this period is often alleged to have been "substandard".[7][67][68][69] She was transferred from Middlesex General Hospital in New Brunswick to Roosevelt Hospital in Edison after her lawyers obtained a court order from Judge John Bachman,[70] and then transferred to Middlesex County Workhouse a few weeks later.[71]

In 1977, she was convicted of the murder of Foerster and of seven other felonies related to the shootout, in a trial her supporters argue was unfair.

Underlines mine.

So this all started with a traffic stop for a broken taillight and according to the second police officer at the scene, it was Acoli not Assata Shakur who shot the fallen officer Foerster. And although Shakur had surrendered with arms up, she was the recipient of gunshots wounds in both arms and a shoulder. Under NJ law anyone associated with a murderer of a police officer can be convicted of murder no matter who did the actual shots. Shakur appears to be so charged. Her escape to Cuba is understandable. Shakur had several other arrests but no convictions besides this NJ Turnpike incident and she was a member the Black Liberation Army an often radical group (there are two sides to the story of such groups, but white America only hears about one side).

All of the “news sources” of this donation fail to mention that she was most likely not the killer herself and the police did a lousy job of controlling this situation - more training might have helped. Those “news” sources consist of Breitbart (that Jon posted), Townhall, Hot Air and the Washington Times - all Right Wing sources that tell stories leaving many selected details out.

I am not surprised that Assata's story serves as an inspiration for this group who is trying the address the issue of needless and overzealous police killings of black people and is right inline with Kaeprnick’s issue of police brutality towards blacks. Appropriate donation consistent with his heart for this issue - AFAIC (as far as I’m concerned).
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby JE Pettibone » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:28 am

Jon Estes wrote:I find it interesting that Kaepernick who many hail as a hero in all of this protest mess has given money to a charity honoring Assata Shakur. The cop killer who has fled to Cuba.



Ed: Jon what is your source and do you have the name of the Charity?

Never mind I found it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assata%27s_Daughters
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:38 am

JE Pettibone wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:I find it interesting that Kaepernick who many hail as a hero in all of this protest mess has given money to a charity honoring Assata Shakur. The cop killer who has fled to Cuba.



Ed: Jon what is your source and do you have the name of the Charity?

Never mind I found it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assata%27s_Daughters

Thanks Ed. That complements the info I provided.

Jon’s source was Breitbart.

One can almost always be assured that Breitbart will hard spin the story by exaggeration/selective disclosures to appeal to those with RW sympathies. In fact they (among others) have created such sympathies.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby William Thornton » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:47 am

Two questions for Keith:

1. A cop was killed. Do you think AS was wrongly convicted?
2. The charitable works in the name of a convicted cop killer...is it unfair to note Kape's participation in this?

Looks like Kape's street cred is damaged by this.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Jim » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:53 am

The “K-affair” is finally working its way into the penultimate silliness mode. The Saints (at least some of them, black and white) took the knee in London yesterday, ostensibly to show their “loyalty-to-teammates” uber-righteousness. This is the same outfit that a few years ago was paying its players “bounty-bonuses” for actually injuring the opposition's players (get them out of the game), especially their quarterbacks. The coach was suspended for a year when he should have been suspended forever. The underlying theme for the blacks is their easily recognizable hatred of this country, sort of like biting the hand that feeds. Football is part of the entertainment industry, which just about says it all with regard to its supercilious sanctimonious loyalty to teammates and Clinton and Sanders in 2016, never recognizing that a Private sleeping in a tent in Afghanistan means more to this country than all the NFL stuffed-shirt millionaires combined. The same can be said for the MSM, which keeps the pot boiling a la Sharpton/Jackson. In fact, it's a lead-pipe cinch that probably 90% or more of the players never wore the uniform and consider a GI about as John Kerry put it back when he was considering another run, to wit, that guys who don't make it in high school wind up in the Middle East dodging bullets or losing their lives.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby JE Pettibone » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:10 pm

William Thornton wrote:Two questions for Keith:

1. A cop was killed. Do you think AS was wrongly convicted?
2. The charitable works in the name of a convicted cop killer...is it unfair to note Kape's participation in this?

Looks like Kape's street cred is damaged by this.


Ed: In/on whose street is his credibility damaged by a contribution of $25,000 to this organization which views Assata Shakur as a victim of police brutality?

I am personally a lot less disturbed by his using his own money to support his cause than I am about his personal protest during the National Anthem.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Sandy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:07 pm

Kapernick gave money to a small organization, mainly of African American women in the city of Chicago that helps create awareness of oppression and advocates for liberation from it, trains young people in how to successfully organize for a cause, and models some self dependence and resource management. It's named after someone that the vast majority of the African American community sees as a victim of racially motivated injustice. I don't see any issue with credibility there, and his contribution is certainly consistent with what he sees and feels is an issue. It is irrelevant to his credibility whether anyone else sees it the same way.

None of these organizations, even the ones with a reputation for violence (which this one doesn't have, btw), sprang up in some kind of vacuum. There are few Caucasian Americans who could even begin to understand the depths of emotion that formed from generations of oppression, and many who are either not interested, or think it's just whining. Most whites either let their eyes just slip past what happened, or ignore it, or deny it ever happened, and even if there were a higher level of awareness, most don't have any kind of experience to which to relate it. There's no credibility lost here, and no hidden, dark intention in the contributions Kaepernick, or any other NFL players, have made within the spectrum of the African American community.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby William Thornton » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:13 pm

Right, got it. Cop is dead but whose memory lives on in perpetual victimhood?
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:19 pm

Sandy wrote:Kapernick gave money to a small organization, mainly of African American women in the city of Chicago that helps create awareness of oppression and advocates for liberation from it, trains young people in how to successfully organize for a cause, and models some self dependence and resource management. It's named after someone that the vast majority of the African American community sees as a victim of racially motivated injustice. I don't see any issue with credibility there, and his contribution is certainly consistent with what he sees and feels is an issue. It is irrelevant to his credibility whether anyone else sees it the same way.

None of these organizations, even the ones with a reputation for violence (which this one doesn't have, btw), sprang up in some kind of vacuum. There are few Caucasian Americans who could even begin to understand the depths of emotion that formed from generations of oppression, and many who are either not interested, or think it's just whining. Most whites either let their eyes just slip past what happened, or ignore it, or deny it ever happened, and even if there were a higher level of awareness, most don't have any kind of experience to which to relate it. There's no credibility lost here, and no hidden, dark intention in the contributions Kaepernick, or any other NFL players, have made within the spectrum of the African American community.


Right on Sandy!
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

William Thornton wrote:Two questions for Keith:

1. A cop was killed. Do you think AS was wrongly convicted?
2. The charitable works in the name of a convicted cop killer...is it unfair to note Kape's participation in this?

Looks like Kape's street cred is damaged by this.

Since it appears you have not read my arguments or Wikipedia link describing the events of Shankur’s arrest, NTMAWR (not treating my arguments with respect).
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby William Thornton » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:41 pm

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Two questions for Keith:

1. A cop was killed. Do you think AS was wrongly convicted?
2. The charitable works in the name of a convicted cop killer...is it unfair to note Kape's participation in this?

Looks like Kape's street cred is damaged by this.

Since it appears you have not read my arguments or Wikipedia link describing the events of Shankur’s arrest, NTMAWR (not treating my arguments with respect).


I linked the wiki article above. You must not have read it. I feel highly disrespected. :o

I was wondering about your view. Wrongful conviction?
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:37 pm

William Thornton wrote:
KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Two questions for Keith:

1. A cop was killed. Do you think AS was wrongly convicted?
2. The charitable works in the name of a convicted cop killer...is it unfair to note Kape's participation in this?

Looks like Kape's street cred is damaged by this.

Since it appears you have not read my arguments or Wikipedia link describing the events of Shankur’s arrest, NTMAWR (not treating my arguments with respect).


I linked the wiki article above. You must not have read it. I feel highly disrespected. :o

I was wondering about your view. Wrongful conviction?


I did read it and quoted from it. Thanks.

For the NJ Turnpike incident she may have been technically guilty on the "aiding and abetting" clause which said anyone involved in a cop killer incident is a cop killer. But I believe she didn’t actually kill the cop (as Officer Harper said) and the aiding and abetting clause was misapplied to this traffic stop - no intention of harming let alone killing anyone; things just got outta hand. She was treated horribly (several wounds although she was surrendering withholds held high, and supposedly got lousy medical treatment). I’m at the mercy of Wikipedia and their references.

Now given the magnitude of other charges against her, I would not hold her up as a model of non-violent protest. But the Assata’s Daughters can be inspired by whomever they want and by whatever stories there are about her. They seem to be doing good stuff (imo) at present and that what Kaepernick is supporting. Kaepernick is not supporting cop killing. It is only the overly imaginative RW psyche who would think so. They must have a full time staff searching for donations that are possible tainted.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby William Thornton » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:36 pm

The cop has been technically dead for a long time now.

Not your best day here, bro. Sometimes I wonder....
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:04 pm

William Thornton wrote:The cop has been technically dead for a long time now.

Not your best day here, bro. Sometimes I wonder....


How did you ever get the idea I thought this was a recent killing? I used past tense exclusively.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Sandy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:33 pm

William Thornton wrote:Right, got it. Cop is dead but whose memory lives on in perpetual victimhood?


The group's name doesn't memorialize the cop killer, it memorializes someone that they see as a victim of police abuse and brutality, and who they see as an example of a legal system they see as unfairly slanted against them based on race. Kaepernick's contribution to the group of $25,000 is consistent with both the cause he is protesting, and the purpose of the other groups to which he has contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars. I doubt he cares much about whether he has credibility with the small little group of people who pay attention to Breitbart news.

There's a difference between our inability to see these kinds of experiences through the eyes of African Americans, who have had a completely different experience with this issue than virtually any Caucasian has had, and real racist bigotry that is bend on forcing its version of "white Christian America" down everyone's throat. That line is somewhere in this attempt to connect an old event to Colin Kaepernick's efforts.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:40 pm

Sandy wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Right, got it. Cop is dead but whose memory lives on in perpetual victimhood?


The group's name doesn't memorialize the cop killer, it memorializes someone that they see as a victim of police abuse and brutality, and who they see as an example of a legal system they see as unfairly slanted against them based on race. Kaepernick's contribution to the group of $25,000 is consistent with both the cause he is protesting, and the purpose of the other groups to which he has contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars. I doubt he cares much about whether he has credibility with the small little group of people who pay attention to Breitbart news.

There's a difference between our inability to see these kinds of experiences through the eyes of African Americans, who have had a completely different experience with this issue than virtually any Caucasian has had, and real racist bigotry that is bend on forcing its version of "white Christian America" down everyone's throat. That line is somewhere in this attempt to connect an old event to Colin Kaepernick's efforts.


How little you know. I don't read Breitbart. I may have checked it out a time or two but not in a long time. The Washington Times is my source for my comments here. I googled what I heard about and the WT link came up.

Amazing that a convicted murderer is getting defended here.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby William Thornton » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:08 am

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:The cop has been technically dead for a long time now.

Not your best day here, bro. Sometimes I wonder....


How did you ever get the idea I thought this was a recent killing? I used past tense exclusively.


Hopeless case of tone deafness, I'm afraid.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:46 am

William Thornton wrote:
KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:The cop has been technically dead for a long time now.

Not your best day here, bro. Sometimes I wonder....


How did you ever get the idea I thought this was a recent killing? I used past tense exclusively.


Hopeless case of tone deafness, I'm afraid.

Then help me out, William. You are being very cryptic this morning - here and on the “More ammo...” topic. No coffee yet?
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:20 am

Jon Estes wrote:
Sandy wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Right, got it. Cop is dead but whose memory lives on in perpetual victimhood?


The group's name doesn't memorialize the cop killer, it memorializes someone that they see as a victim of police abuse and brutality, and who they see as an example of a legal system they see as unfairly slanted against them based on race. Kaepernick's contribution to the group of $25,000 is consistent with both the cause he is protesting, and the purpose of the other groups to which he has contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars. I doubt he cares much about whether he has credibility with the small little group of people who pay attention to Breitbart news.

There's a difference between our inability to see these kinds of experiences through the eyes of African Americans, who have had a completely different experience with this issue than virtually any Caucasian has had, and real racist bigotry that is bend on forcing its version of "white Christian America" down everyone's throat. That line is somewhere in this attempt to connect an old event to Colin Kaepernick's efforts.


How little you know. I don't read Breitbart. I may have checked it out a time or two but not in a long time. The Washington Times is my source for my comments here. I googled what I heard about and the WT link came up.

Amazing that a convicted murderer is getting defended here.


WT not much better than Breitbart.

She was convicted but she was not the murderer (according to the other officer there on that traffic stop). Read here.

I agree that Assata Shakur was not the consistent model of non-violent protest of say a MLK or a Gandhi, but this organization (Assata’s Daughter) has identified aspects of her experience as an inspiration - her wrongful conviction, her receiving bullets when she had her hands up in surrender (potentially), and her ill treatment in the hospital (also only potentially). It points at ill treatment towards blacks from the police and the courts which are the focal points of their organization.

I can criticize their choice of organization title; but reading their programs, I can heartily support their causes. Apparently Kaepernick thought so also.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby William Thornton » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:31 am

Well, here's a bit of improvement: "I agree that Assata Shakur was not the consistent model of non-violent protest of say a MLK or a Gandhi..."

Cop is still dead. Probably has family living. No word from Kape or Keith on that.

I'll help you out, since you asked. In your haste to defend the lib causes you ignore some of the weightier matters. You think you are steamrolling your intellectual inferiors. Nothing personal. We've done this for a long time.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:34 am

I guess I'm missing something. The Wikipedia article says, "[Assata Shakur] then joined the Black Liberation Army, a loosely-knit offshoot of the Black Panthers which led an armed struggle against the U.S. government through tactics such as holding up banks and killing police officers and drug dealers. Between 1971 and 1973, she was charged with several crimes and was the subject of a multi-state manhunt." Yet the Assata's Daughters "Through our Akerele program, we introduce young girls, ages 4-12 to Assata Shakur and her revolutionary politic and love of Black people." Her "revolutionary politic" doesn't sound like something young girls of any age need to be introduced to -- certainly not in a positive way.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:07 am

Rvaughn wrote:I guess I'm missing something. The Wikipedia article says, "[Assata Shakur] then joined the Black Liberation Army, a loosely-knit offshoot of the Black Panthers which led an armed struggle against the U.S. government through tactics such as holding up banks and killing police officers and drug dealers. Between 1971 and 1973, she was charged with several crimes and was the subject of a multi-state manhunt." Yet the Assata's Daughters "Through our Akerele program, we introduce young girls, ages 4-12 to Assata Shakur and her revolutionary politic and love of Black people." Her "revolutionary politic" doesn't sound like something young girls of any age need to be introduced to -- certainly not in a positive way.

Are you denying that revolutionary changes are required to address the issue of police brutality towards black people. The situation is not improving on itself. Look at the national trends at https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/nationaltrends/
Sorry, could not copy and paste, so please click on the link and study it.

These are monthly totals. Note that on average police kill about 100/month. Of those about 28 are black. That’s 28% when the black population is 12.2%.

This organization focusses on what black women can do about it and has programs for 4-12 year olds and 13-19 year olds.

I understand the fright/animosity many white people have when Black Panther, Black Liberation Army and these days Black Lives Matter are mentioned. It has been programmed into us as being bad evil radical stuff. We need to get over that. And that is a big part of the problem.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:08 am

Ed: R.L. How much do you know about "Assata Shakur and her revolutionary politic and love of Black people"?
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