Assata Shakur

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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:32 am

Oh, the Washington Times. Owned by the Unification Church.

I don't see a defense of Shakur here. The organization Assata's Daughters, to which Kaepernick gave $25,000, uses her name because they see her as a victim of injustice, not as a cop killer. One of their points in their educational program is the right to a fair trial by a jury of your peers, the point being that in a trial involving an African American defendant, peers would logically and reasonably be other African Americans. Shakur's conviction was made by an all-white jury, and is seen as an injustice in the black community, hence, this group's name. That also explains Kaepernick's support. He's given to a number of similar organizations for the same reason. That doesn't have anything to do with his credibility, or with cop killing. It has to do with their perspective of injustice.

Of course, if we apply your logic to the fact that you depend on The Washington Times for your information, that makes you a Moonie.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:39 am

William Thornton wrote:Well, here's a bit of improvement: "I agree that Assata Shakur was not the consistent model of non-violent protest of say a MLK or a Gandhi...”[/quote}

I had said similar things before that you must have missed.

William Thornton wrote:Cop is still dead. Probably has family living. No word from Kape or Keith on that.[/quote}
As you said that was a long time ago , 1973.

William Thornton wrote:I'll help you out, since you asked. In your haste to defend the lib causes you ignore some of the weightier matters. You think you are steamrolling your intellectual inferiors. Nothing personal. We've done this for a long time.


So this is my “tone deafness" you mentioned. I judge “tones” and what is “weightier" by numbers.
309 blacks killed by cops in 2016 (30% unarmed). Source: https://mappingpoliceviolence.org.
98 cops killed in 2016 while on duty (most due to natural causes or accidents, 32 by gunfire). Source: https://www.odmp.org/search/year, courtesy Ed.

Yes I know cops put their lives on the line daily and they do much good. Training on how to handle altercations (and frankly on police attitudes towards blacks and vice versa) is the key that will help all involved in the those altercations. If that be called a “lib cause” so be it.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:45 am

KeithE wrote:Are you denying that revolutionary changes are required to address the issue of police brutality towards black people. The situation is not improving on itself.
I am denying that holding up banks, killing police officers, and such like are a moral way to effect such change. Are you agreeing that they are good ways to do so, or that she didn't do those things, or something else?
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:48 am

JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: R.L. How much do you know about "Assata Shakur and her revolutionary politic and love of Black people"?
Ed, I don't know anything about them, other than what is said on the sources that I looked at that William and Keith linked. If what the sources say is so, I am in disagreement with her "revolutionary politic," which (the sources say) included robbing banks and killing police offices.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby KeithE » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:53 am

Rvaughn wrote:
KeithE wrote:Are you denying that revolutionary changes are required to address the issue of police brutality towards black people. The situation is not improving on itself.
I am denying that holding up banks, killing police officers, and such like are a moral way to effect such change. Are you agreeing that they are good ways to do so, or that she didn't do those things, or something else?

No I am not saying that and have pointed out her other 6 charges (all of which have been dismissed or she has been acquitted). She was not the murderer of the police officer (as his partner testified). Yet you seem to say she is guilty. I have explicitly said that she is not a good model of non-violent protest (like MLK or Gandhi). But I do not think that should poison the work of Assata’s Daughters today or even more so question the heart of Kaepernick (as Jon seems to have done).
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Jim » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:59 am

The MSM has been ecstatic over the black knee-knockers in the NFL who put down the flag and anthem, thus expressing their distaste/disdain for the country in which they become millionaires by simply bashing out each other's brains and breaking bones while mostly white onlookers watch with a certain fascination not to their credit...sorta like going ga-ga over boxers trying to kill each other for the money. The main-streamers haven't had so much fun since Dylan Roof, the white wing-nut, shot up the Charleston African-American church. Emanuel Kidega Samson, a black guy, shot up a Church of Christ congregation the other day, killing one white woman and wounding six others. He would have killed more but an usher put him down. The MSM made it a one-day story and it hasn't been heard from since. The former slaughter invoked protests and is still a prize story a la racism. The latter invoked no protesters and is now forgotten. Accusing a black of racism is a no-no and wouldn't be allowed even if he ground the flag under his shoes and graced it with warm spit. Only a white supremacist would write such trivia as this...right? The MSM duplicity is obvious but the same applies to MSM churches as well.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:48 pm

KeithE wrote:...Yet you seem to say she is guilty...she is not a good model of non-violent protest (like MLK or Gandhi).
You say I seem to think she is guilty, while making your own answer say "she is not a good model of non-violent protest." You must think she is "guilty" of something. Morally culpable and legally proven guilty do not always line up together.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:40 pm

Jim wrote: Emanuel Kidega Samson, a black guy, shot up a Church of Christ congregation the other day, killing one white woman and wounding six others. He would have killed more but an usher put him down. The MSM made it a one-day story and it hasn't been heard from since.


Googled it and found 304,000 references, including several hundred from MSM sources over the past four days, as more information comes out. Mentioned on MSNBC last night in several conversations and reports regarding the Las Vegas shooting. I've seen references to it on cable news sources and the progress made in the investigation ever since the shooting. Of course, if you're not watching MSM then you wouldn't know that.

The shooter was Sudanese, was himself a baptized member of the church, which is multi-racial, and it seems like there's some question about his motives, which the alt-right already pronounced as a "Dylan Roof in reverse." I haven't seen anything that says the alleged note to that effect which was supposedly found in his car has been authenticated. Your perspective sort of slanted this, and ignored some of the pertinent facts. But you always do that.

Jim wrote:Only a white supremacist would write such trivia as this...right?


:|
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Jim » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:58 am

Sandy wrote:
Jim wrote: Emanuel Kidega Samson, a black guy, shot up a Church of Christ congregation the other day, killing one white woman and wounding six others. He would have killed more but an usher put him down. The MSM made it a one-day story and it hasn't been heard from since.


Googled it and found 304,000 references, including several hundred from MSM sources over the past four days, as more information comes out. Mentioned on MSNBC last night in several conversations and reports regarding the Las Vegas shooting. I've seen references to it on cable news sources and the progress made in the investigation ever since the shooting. Of course, if you're not watching MSM then you wouldn't know that.

The shooter was Sudanese, was himself a baptized member of the church, which is multi-racial, and it seems like there's some question about his motives, which the alt-right already pronounced as a "Dylan Roof in reverse." I haven't seen anything that says the alleged note to that effect which was supposedly found in his car has been authenticated. Your perspective sort of slanted this, and ignored some of the pertinent facts. But you always do that.

Jim wrote:Only a white supremacist would write such trivia as this...right?


:|


I dare say you know exactly what I mean. You can bring up most any subject on the browsers and get “thousands” of hits. In Charleston, the mostly black protesters gathered their forces and marched to do battle with the police, whose job it was to keep them from busting doors and windows, looting and finally burning businesses (not their own) and bankrupting their owners. No marches, at least of any substance, after Antioch, and no looting in Nashville. This was perfectly acceptable since it was black on white murder and thus just a ho-hum matter. I knew the Sudanese background of the Antioch guy and figured he was/is probably Muslim, the note (if it exists) notwithstanding, about the same as Obama who professed Christianity but did not roam far from his Muslim roots. In fact, his mentor, the Rev. Doc Jeremiah (Goddam America) Wright, accompanied the Rev. Doc Louis Farrakhan, head hate-monger of the Nation of Islam, to Libya back in the early 80s for Calypso Louie's plea for a million bucks from Qaddafi, which he later would have collected in the 90s except for U.S. government intervention. This is at least nationalistic if not white supremacist stuff, but so be it. I am racist, after all.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Sandy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:15 pm

Jim wrote: I knew the Sudanese background of the Antioch guy and figured he was/is probably Muslim, the note (if it exists) notwithstanding, about the same as Obama who professed Christianity but did not roam far from his Muslim roots.


The shooter was a member of the Burnett Chapel Church of Christ, baptized there after his profession of faith. If you'd bothered to look, or pay attention to any of the information he was one of a small community of Sudanese who were members of the church. Most Sudanese in the US are refugees, and are Christians who came here to escape persecution carried out under the cover of the civil war there. There's no evidence that he had any kind of a Muslim background, especially not with the given name "Emanuel." Nor is there anything credible to indicate there was any Muslim influence involved in this shooting, or even anything credible to indicate his intentions to create a "Dylan Roof in reverse." I can't say I've seen anything from a credible source about the alleged "note."

It's generally accepted among Muslims that joining a Christian church, which Barack Obama has done twice, is about as far as you can roam from your "Muslim roots" and still be on the same planet. If you'd bothered to check out any biographical information about him, you'd know that his association with Trinity United Church of Christ, and the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright was mainly the result of his wife's association and membership in the church. The pastor who biographers consider his spiritual advisor is Rev. Joshua DuBois, who is African Methodist Episcopal. I see nothing in his actions or words to indicate a religious posture that is even slightly Muslim in origin, so that statement in your rant is worth ignoring unless you can cite a non-right wing extremist source to support your claim.

Jim wrote:This is at least nationalistic if not white supremacist stuff, but so be it. I am racist, after all.


I don't see anything "nationalistic" about it. Muslims can be Americans legally, constitutionally, and native born. Being white has nothing to do with being "American," though there are many Caucasians who are Muslims, either by choice through conversion, or who were born into the faith. The self-deprecating second sentence isn't really necessary.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Jim » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:36 pm

Sandy wrote:
Jim wrote: I knew the Sudanese background of the Antioch guy and figured he was/is probably Muslim, the note (if it exists) notwithstanding, about the same as Obama who professed Christianity but did not roam far from his Muslim roots.


The shooter was a member of the Burnett Chapel Church of Christ, baptized there after his profession of faith. If you'd bothered to look, or pay attention to any of the information he was one of a small community of Sudanese who were members of the church. Most Sudanese in the US are refugees, and are Christians who came here to escape persecution carried out under the cover of the civil war there. There's no evidence that he had any kind of a Muslim background, especially not with the given name "Emanuel." Nor is there anything credible to indicate there was any Muslim influence involved in this shooting, or even anything credible to indicate his intentions to create a "Dylan Roof in reverse." I can't say I've seen anything from a credible source about the alleged "note."

It's generally accepted among Muslims that joining a Christian church, which Barack Obama has done twice, is about as far as you can roam from your "Muslim roots" and still be on the same planet. If you'd bothered to check out any biographical information about him, you'd know that his association with Trinity United Church of Christ, and the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright was mainly the result of his wife's association and membership in the church. The pastor who biographers consider his spiritual advisor is Rev. Joshua DuBois, who is African Methodist Episcopal. I see nothing in his actions or words to indicate a religious posture that is even slightly Muslim in origin, so that statement in your rant is worth ignoring unless you can cite a non-right wing extremist source to support your claim.





All the biographers notwithstanding, by his own admission Obama claimed the Rev/Doc Jeremiah as his mentor...for something like 20 years, at that. He devoted his famous (or infamous) Philadelphia speech (self-described) to a presentation about race, his obsession. It actually was a monumental effort to make Wright likeable and understandable, as if that could be done. He later threw the rev under the bus after the rev expressed his animosities at the National Press Club clambake, quite a performance. Joining churches can be far more politically motivated than through some spiritual experience. The Big O certainly knew this.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Sandy » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:11 pm

As I said, cite a non-right wing source to back up your claim. Find the support for anything you've claimed. It's common knowledge that President Obama's father was Muslim, that during his younger years he was an influence, and that he attended a Muslim school in Indonesia. There's nothing to indicate a strong, personal conviction about the Islamic faith in his life, however, since his Christian conversion experience took place before he entered any kind of public life. He never hid his involvement with Trinity, or with Wright, no reason to, since Wright was a successful, well accepted pastor within his own church and community. They were involved in community organizing in Chicago, given Wright's interest in that. Wright's highly publicized statement, taken in context, was nothing any more or less than Falwell or Pat Robertson's evaluation of America's spiritual condition, or their similar words on the subject. There's nothing, not a single thing, in Obama's personal or political life, or in his eight years in the Presidency, that even looks like it might have been an influence of Islam, though there would have been nothing wrong with that if there had been.

The bottom line here is that an African American man won a series of elections, including two rather significant Presidential re-elections, garnering more votes than anyone elected to office in the history of world democracy. He had two terms with some significant legislative accomplishments, and in spite of the stonewalling obstructionism that he faced, will go down in history as one of the more successful Presidents of the modern era. That irks and irritates you, to no end.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Jim » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:02 pm

Sandy wrote: The pastor who biographers consider his [Obama's] spiritual advisor is Rev. Joshua DuBois, who is African Methodist Episcopal.


Perhaps you will return to Dreams from My Father to find a 16-page segment devoted both directly and indirectly to the Rev/Doc Wright, settling any doubt about Obama's self-described mentor, besides his own claim, of course. The infamous Bill Ayers, who set Obama on the road to politics, has insisted for years that he actually wrote Obama's autobiography, and I believe him. Obama was commissioned to do a book on race (what else?) but chose instead to produce a grandiose book about himself at age 34 and especially his Kenyan ancestors, as well as diss white folks. Participants in this forum express opinions for which they will or will not use references to establish credibility. Readers, including you, can decide whether to believe them or not, or even disprove their words. I furnish references when I think them necessary (such as above) and don't give a fig whether you believe anything or not. You're blowing smoke when you tell me to back up an opinion. You are a fanatical sycophant for Maddow and your stuff is always likely to include her boilerplate foolishness like the time (I watched for 20 minutes and gave up) she promised a glorious scoop choreographed like a Michael Moore movie (trash). I found out later that her scoop was that Trump paid only $28 million in federal taxes in 2005. She's your idea of guru-worthiness. Egad!
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby Sandy » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:55 pm

Jim wrote: I furnish references when I think them necessary (such as above) and don't give a fig whether you believe anything or not. You're blowing smoke when you tell me to back up an opinion.

:lol:

For you, references are always necessary. Even when you do use them, you're never close to the context. Here are some quotes into which the frame of reference for most everything you post falls

Jim wrote:This is at least nationalistic if not white supremacist stuff, but so be it. I am racist, after all.

Only a white supremacist would write such trivia as this...right?


Your words. So without a specific reference or citation, they set the context for interpretation of everything you say.
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Re: Assata Shakur

Postby David Flick » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:30 am

Sandy wrote:
Jim wrote: I furnish references when I think them necessary (such as above) and don't give a fig whether you believe anything or not. You're blowing smoke when you tell me to back up an opinion.

:lol:

For you, references are always necessary. Even when you do use them, you're never close to the context. Here are some quotes into which the frame of reference for most everything you post falls

Jim wrote:This is at least nationalistic if not white supremacist stuff, but so be it. I am racist, after all.

Only a white supremacist would write such trivia as this...right?


Your words. So without a specific reference or citation, they set the context for interpretation of everything you say.


    Sandy, you're clueless... :lol:
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