The People’s Platform

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The People’s Platform

Postby KeithE » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:28 pm

It is not enough to oppose Trump and his policies. A truly progressive movement is needed to Make America a Greatly Improved Country (MAGIC hats anyone?)

The People’s Platform - 8 House Bills

Health Care for All: H.R. 676 Medicare For All Act, introduced by Congressman John Conyers, Jr. (D-Mich).

College for All: H.R. 1880 College for All Act of 2017, introduced by Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal (WA-07)

Workers’ Rights: H.R.15 - Raise the Wage Act, introduced by Representatives Bobby Scott (D-VA) and Keith Ellison (D-MN).

Women’s Reproductive Rights: H.R.771 - Equal Access to Abortion Coverage in Health Insurance (EACH Woman) Act of 2017, introduced by Rep. Lee, Barbara (D-CA).

Voting Rights: H.R.2840 - Automatic Voter Registration Act, introduced by Rep. Cicilline, David N. (D-RI).

Criminal Justice and Immigrant Rights: Justice is Not For Sale Act of 2017, introduced by Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.)

Tax on Wall Street: H.R. 1144 - Inclusive Prosperity Act, introduced by Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN).

Protecting the Environment: H.R. 2242 - Keep It in the Ground Act, introduced by Rep. Jared Huffman (D-CA)


All are well intentioned (even H.R. 771 makes sense in the pluralistic culture with differing views of abortion).

Other countries (happier ones) already do all of these things and we could do so ourselves if the RW politics of the status quo benefitting rich people/corporations were dispelled.

A couple of the H.R’s will require more taxes on all people like H.R. 676 and H.R. 1880 (but at the same time make life better and cheaper for the people)

H.R. 1144 would raise more money (from stock traders, that is the upper half of Americans, at a rate of 0.5% per trade which is far less than the ~8% sales tax we now pay when we purchase other things than stocks).

The other 5 H.R.’s are approximately revenue neutral.

At a minimum the CBO should score these bills.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby David Flick » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:27 am

KeithE wrote:It is not enough to oppose Trump and his policies. A truly progressive movement is needed to Make America a Greatly Improved Country (MAGIC hats anyone?)

The People’s Platform - 8 House Bills

Health Care for All: H.R. 676 Medicare For All Act, introduced by Congressman John Conyers, Jr. (D-Mich).

College for All: H.R. 1880 College for All Act of 2017, introduced by Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal (WA-07)

Workers’ Rights: H.R.15 - Raise the Wage Act, introduced by Representatives Bobby Scott (D-VA) and Keith Ellison (D-MN).

Women’s Reproductive Rights: H.R.771 - Equal Access to Abortion Coverage in Health Insurance (EACH Woman) Act of 2017, introduced by Rep. Lee, Barbara (D-CA).

Voting Rights: H.R.2840 - Automatic Voter Registration Act, introduced by Rep. Cicilline, David N. (D-RI).

Criminal Justice and Immigrant Rights: Justice is Not For Sale Act of 2017, introduced by Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.)

Tax on Wall Street: H.R. 1144 - Inclusive Prosperity Act, introduced by Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN).

Protecting the Environment: H.R. 2242 - Keep It in the Ground Act, introduced by Rep. Jared Huffman (D-CA)


All are well intentioned (even H.R. 771 makes sense in the pluralistic culture with differing views of abortion).

1Other countries (happier ones) already do all of these things and we could do so ourselves 2if the RW politics of the status quo benefitting rich people/corporations were dispelled.
    1) Name (and document with credible data) just two of the so-called "happier countries" that already do ALL of the 8 things listed by "The People's Platform". You can't do it. Both you and the Common Dreams website are delusional...

    2) Yeah sure, just blame all of everything that disagrees with the left's Progressive ideology on right wing politics. The reason Trump was elected was because the country is fed up to the gills with the Progressive ideology dumped on us the last 8 years by the Obama Administration. Others here can express my two points far better than I can.
A couple of the H.R’s will require more taxes on all people like H.R. 676 and H.R. 1880 (but at the same time make life better and cheaper for the people)

H.R. 1144 would raise more money (from stock traders, that is the upper half of Americans, at a rate of 0.5% per trade which is far less than the ~8% sales tax we now pay when we purchase other things than stocks).

The other 5 H.R.’s are approximately revenue neutral.

At a minimum the CBO should score these bills.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby William Thornton » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:24 am

Tinfoil hats anyone's?
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby KeithE » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:46 am

David Flick wrote:
KeithE wrote:It is not enough to oppose Trump and his policies. A truly progressive movement is needed to Make America a Greatly Improved Country (MAGIC hats anyone?)

The People’s Platform - 8 House Bills

Health Care for All: H.R. 676 Medicare For All Act, introduced by Congressman John Conyers, Jr. (D-Mich).

College for All: H.R. 1880 College for All Act of 2017, introduced by Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal (WA-07)

Workers’ Rights: H.R.15 - Raise the Wage Act, introduced by Representatives Bobby Scott (D-VA) and Keith Ellison (D-MN).

Women’s Reproductive Rights: H.R.771 - Equal Access to Abortion Coverage in Health Insurance (EACH Woman) Act of 2017, introduced by Rep. Lee, Barbara (D-CA).

Voting Rights: H.R.2840 - Automatic Voter Registration Act, introduced by Rep. Cicilline, David N. (D-RI).

Criminal Justice and Immigrant Rights: Justice is Not For Sale Act of 2017, introduced by Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.)

Tax on Wall Street: H.R. 1144 - Inclusive Prosperity Act, introduced by Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN).

Protecting the Environment: H.R. 2242 - Keep It in the Ground Act, introduced by Rep. Jared Huffman (D-CA)


All are well intentioned (even H.R. 771 makes sense in the pluralistic culture with differing views of abortion).

1Other countries (happier ones) already do all of these things and we could do so ourselves 2if the RW politics of the status quo benefitting rich people/corporations were dispelled.
    1) Name (and document with credible data) just two of the so-called "happier countries" that already do ALL of the 8 things listed by "The People's Platform". You can't do it. Both you and the Common Dreams website are delusional...

    2) Yeah sure, just blame all of everything that disagrees with the left's Progressive ideology on right wing politics. The reason Trump was elected was because the country is fed up to the gills with the Progressive ideology dumped on us the last 8 years by the Obama Administration. Others here can express my two points far better than I can.
A couple of the H.R’s will require more taxes on all people like H.R. 676 and H.R. 1880 (but at the same time make life better and cheaper for the people)

H.R. 1144 would raise more money (from stock traders, that is the upper half of Americans, at a rate of 0.5% per trade which is far less than the ~8% sales tax we now pay when we purchase other things than stocks).

The other 5 H.R.’s are approximately revenue neutral.

At a minimum the CBO should score these bills.



This morning I have already taken on the task of documenting the countries that have similar laws that has worked successfully. Completed initial looks at 7 of the 8 Bills and have found that many countries are far more progressive than we are on these matters (usually more than 20 countries; exception being only 6 countries have free college tuition). From what I’m seeing on the 7 HRs looked at so far, they are certainly not “delusional” or “tin hat” material - they have often worked and worked well. The Keep It in the Ground Act (H.R. 2242) may be may not have been proven to be effective yet since it is of a more recent vintage after its effect cannot be measured in a few years (decades required).

It will take time and effort to fully document all of this including each country's practices, when started, progress to date, etc and to post it to BL. My day is absolutely full (but may open up if my daughter backs off of wanting to be driven to Nashville to give some clothes to lady that needs them).

As for Obama "dumping progressive ideology" on us that is a real joke. Some liberal rhetoric and perhaps intentions on the part of Obama for sure. But as for what his administration was able to do - he remained committed to big business (e.g Obamacare, TARP bailouts), been the “deporter in chief”, and has taken our military into 7 wars in the Middle East (started with one - Afghanistan). Hardly liberal/progressive goals or progress. I do give him credit for turning the Great Recession around with the stimulus program, but could have done better.

As for Trump, he is long on picking fights and spending money lavishly. All will be documented in due course. Church awaits.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby KeithE » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:48 pm

OK not going to Nashville.

My initial statement
Other countries (happier ones) already do all of these things (the 8 People’s Platform Bills) and we could do so ourselves
.

David’s challenge:

1) Name (and document with credible data) just two of the so-called "happier countries" that already do ALL of the 8 things listed by "The People's Platform". You can't do it. Both you and the Common Dreams website are delusional...


Here are the 2017 Happiness ratings by country: World Happiness Report

The US ranks 14th – pretty good but has fallen recently.

In order the happier countries : (1) Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Switzerland, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Sweden, Israel, Costa Rica, (13) Austria.

Discussion of the feasibility of each of Bills in terms of other countries' experience:

Universal Health Care
58 countries have Universal Health Care including all the countries ranked higher than the US in happiness.

List of Countries that Have Universal Health Care


Free College Tuition
6 countries in the world have free college tuition including three of the countries that are among the happier than the US :
Norway, Finland, Sweden, Germany, Slovenia, France. Norways’ free education system started in 2003.
6 Countries with Virtually Free College Tuition

Minimum Wage
How Does America’s Minimum Wage Stack Up
Image
9 countries have higher minimum wage than the US has including Canada, New Zealand, Nerherlands, Australia (which are among the countries happier than the US).

Abortion Insurance Coverage
Only 6 countries in the world do not allow abortions. They are Chile, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Vatican City and Malta. Only in the US are insurance companies banned from providing coverage form abortion and that only in 10 states.
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/states-are-coming-after-insurance-coverage-for-abortion-heres-why-that-matters_us_59931244e4b09071f69cd82a]Texas Governor Signs Bill Banning Insurance Coverage For Abortion[/url]

Texas is not the first state in the country to block insurance companies from covering abortion. Half of the states in this country have abortion coverage restrictions in their Affordable Care Act exchange plans, and 10 ― including Idaho, Michigan and North Dakota ― have similar bans on private insurance.


Voting Rights
Voter Registration Across the World

The United States is one of a few democratic nations that place the entire burden of registering to vote on individual citizens. Today, one-quarter to one-third of all eligible Americans remain unregistered — and thus are unable to cast ballots that will count. Even Americans who are registered risk being blocked from casting a ballot because of problems with our voter registration system — unprocessed registrations, inaccurate purges of names from the voter rolls, and other administrative and human errors. The registration system is as much a problem for the dedicated civil servants who administer our elections as it is for voters. It is costly, inefficient, and insufficiently accurate.


In fact, it has been — in several other major democracies. In every one of these countries, government itself assumes the responsibility of creating and keeping voter rolls, rather than relying on citizens to register themselves and navigate a clunky, outdated, and often inaccurate system.


Criminal Justice and Immigration Rights
According to the World Justice Project World Justice Project Map and Ratings
the US ranks 18th in the world in terms of justice. Most of the happier countries rank higher than the US. Only Costa Rica ranks lower and Israel, Switzerland and Iceland were not ranked in this very complex rating system.

The US is among the 5 countries that are the most restrictive in allowing immigrants in. (Austria, Germany. Japan, and Switzerland are the other 4)

5 Hardest Countries for Immigration


Financial Transaction Taxes
40 countries around the world currently have implemented the FTT and the European Union is about to make it a practice for all of their members states.
Financial Transaction Taxes Implemented

The US had a Financial Transaction Tax (0.2%) from 1914 to 1966. It helped to bring us out of the Depression and only was ended to help rich investors a very slight amount.

Keeping Fossil Fuel in the Ground

200 nations have signed the Paris Accords with many of them saying they will at some point stop all extraction of fossil fuel from the ground. It is true that these have not already ended the extraction. But it certainly is not delusional to believe that solar, wind, and biofuels can replace a nation’s source of energy.

--------------------------

This should be enough to convince any non-rw duped person that the 8 Bills are feasible and certainly not “delusional”.

Specifically Norway, Finland and Sweden are happier and have implemented the jest of these 8 Bills.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby Sandy » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:26 am

Well, so much for William's call for tinfoil hats, and David's exclamation that Keith couldn't document with credible data just two of the "happier countries" who do all 8 things listed by the "People's Platform." William needs to tip his tinfoil hat to Keith's research. And David only asked for two countries :lol: so Keith gives him at least thirteen that rank ahead of the US :lol: . Oh, and the data is certainly credible.

I think the Canadians are always a bit more understated and perhaps polite when it comes to comparisons between their health care system, which is essentially a socialized, single payer, government administrated plan they ironically call "Medicare". In almost any poll you can find, Canadians are overwhelmingly more satisfied with their health care than Americans are with ours, and you won't find one in a thousand Canadians who want what we have. On the other hand, the Canadian government has to go to great lengths to keep Americans from swamping their system, and draining their pharmacies of prescription medications.

I have a step sister who is administrator of a children's ranch in Arizona that cares for kids who are in state placement. The county hospital in their area, which treated the kids, closed about a year ago, so when she had a horseback riding accident that caused a complicated broken arm, she couldn't afford the follow up surgery at one of the area private hospitals, so she went to one in Mexico. Turns out it was a very clean, well equipped facility, government operated, with a top notch orthopedic surgeon who had a lot of American patients. Most of the patients there were Americans, who sought care there after the county hospital closed, because they could afford it, and they couldn't get in the door without insurance in the other hospitals in the county.

The US could do this, and it could figure out how to do it better than Norway or Sweden.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby William Thornton » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:41 am

Vermont and CA were/are doing a single payer system. How's that going?

The tinfoil hats are for those who think this can be done. Didn't see a total price tag. We'll worry about paying for it later.

But hey, elect folks and do it.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:41 am

KeithE wrote:OK not going to Nashville.

Universal Health Care
58 countries have Universal Health Care including all the countries ranked higher than the US in happiness.

List of Countries that Have Universal Health Care


At least 20 of those countries listed I have families from in my church. I will talk to them about their countries universal health care system.

Most are here because they can do better here, long-term for their families than at their home. nation.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby KeithE » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:41 pm

Sandy wrote:Well, so much for William's call for tinfoil hats, and David's exclamation that Keith couldn't document with credible data just two of the "happier countries" who do all 8 things listed by the "People's Platform." William needs to tip his tinfoil hat to Keith's research. And David only asked for two countries :lol: so Keith gives him at least thirteen that rank ahead of the US :lol: . Oh, and the data is certainly credible.

The US could do this, and it could figure out how to do it better than Norway or Sweden.


Thanks Sandy!

David asked for proof for something I didn’t intend namely 2 countries (whose people are happier) that had experience doing all the 8 Bills successfully. My intentions was merely that each of the 8 Bills have been successfully accomplished in many other countries and those countries are happier for it. This was to counter David’s claim that promoting these bills are “delusional”. Truth is each of these bills have worked very well in many countries. That was documented.

It is only for those who have bought the RW dogma that collectivism can never work, who say these proven programs will fail (so much so they say anyone who disagrees is “delusional"). This dogma has been carefully propagandized over many decades and now holds sway over not only the Trump base (~35%) but also another 20% or so of fiscally conservative Republicans. We simply have to get over this dogma to make any real progress in this country. We should learn form what works for the majority of the people (not just what enriches the already rich people/corporations, which are driving legislation in this country).

William seemed to imply that Universal Health Care has not worked in Vermont and California. Truth is it has never been tried though each state has considered it. They died a political death, not in-practice failure. Where universal health care has been tried, it has usually worked well for decades: In the OECD countries the costs are about 40% of what the US spends per capita (this data in 2013).
Image

and that do so with better outcomes. READ ALL OF THIS, look at all the plotted outcome DATA, look at the cost DATA (2015 data) and admit to these simple documented facts. If so many places have universal health care that has worked well, we can do it as well.

Most of all get over your highly prejudiced view against effective collective action. I’m not say all forms of collectivism always work; but it has usually been successful when thoughtfully implemented. We can do it. It is only the RW dogmatists who are deluded.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby William Thornton » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:09 pm

Why did the ca and vt proposals get dropped? (Not sure if cA is still active)

I've never been too keen on the happiness indexes. Don't think they mean much.

But I do wish you guys would get happier.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby KeithE » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:35 pm

William Thornton wrote:Why did the ca and vt proposals get dropped? (Not sure if cA is still active)

I've never been too keen on the happiness indexes. Don't think they mean much.


Why don’t you research that yourself?
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby William Thornton » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:55 pm

I already know. Apparently you don't. You brought them up...figured you knew what you were writing about.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby Sandy » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:52 pm

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Why did the ca and vt proposals get dropped? (Not sure if cA is still active)

I've never been too keen on the happiness indexes. Don't think they mean much.


Why don’t you research that yourself?


Research, and a conservative member of this board? Oxymoron.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby William Thornton » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:44 am

Do either of the collectivists know? Apparently not.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby KeithE » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:18 am

William Thornton wrote:Do either of the collectivists know? Apparently not.

Yes I do know and I know why. Just get very tired of taking the time to document everything just to have the forum’s conservatives diss it with a snide remark without apparently even reading it (at least they do not demonstrate that they read it since they seldom if ever acknowledge any of the content or provide specific retorts). But alas I’ll take the bait in order to educate people herein.

Vermont bails on single-payer health care
Concern about cost, federal support, and FoxNews’s favorite political poison pill (Gruber) have killed it.

Shumlin faced deep skepticism that lawmakers could agree on a way to pay for his ambitious goal and that the feds would agree to everything he needed to create the first state-based single-payer system in 2017.

And that was all before Shumlin, a Democrat, almost lost reelection last month in one of the country’s most liberal states. And it was before MIT economist Jonathan Gruber, the now notorious Obamacare consultant who also advised Vermont until his $400,000 contract was killed amid the controversy, became political poison.


‘Woefully incomplete’ universal health bill dead for the year in California

Rendon announced plans to park the bill to create a government-run universal health care system in Assembly Rules Committee “until further notice” and give senators time to fill in holes that the bill does not currently address.

“Even senators who voted for Senate Bill 562 noted there are potentially fatal flaws in the bill, including the fact it does not address many serious issues, such as financing, delivery of care, cost controls, or the realities of needed action by the Trump administration and voters to make SB 562 a genuine piece of legislation,” Rendon said.


Neither Vermont or California got into implementation due to fear of excess cost and other political issues. Where it actually has been tried (most all the world’s major countries) it has worked for decades at half the cost. It is RW politics that has killed these brief attempts.

As for the cost concerns, Sanders' Medicare-for-all Bill posits (as one idea) an additional 2.2% tax on individuals - less than most pay for insurance as I demonstrated here. I’ll repeat the bottom line for the lazy:
What is 2.2%+1.45% = 3.65% for the average American family making say $100K/year? That is $3650/year or $304/month.

What do employees (lucky enough to have family health insurance) pay a month? It is $4956/year or $413/month.

Thus it would be 25% cheaper as far as premiums go and we can cover everyone. Deductibles would probably be less as well (but that is not clear yet).

I have learned since the post above that there would be no deductibles or co-pays in the Sanders’s plan. What would Sen. Bernie Sanders' 'Medicare-for-All' bill mean for you?
Under Sanders’ bill, Americans would have one insurance plan, administered by the federal government. Gone would be co-pays, deductibles and premiums paid to private insurers along with insurance that’s tied to employment.


Yes the CBO needs to score this (but they won’t due to political fear) and the 2.2% may go up or down.

There are many other options to raise the money than just adding a 2.2% tax. Some of the other options are given here. Combinations work as well.

It can work as it has elsewhere.

William - this “collectivist” says join the research or show some class by not making snide comments.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby William Thornton » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:30 am

...concerns about cost, financing. Eureka. Thanks. Sometimes a simple answer is all that is needed.

I'd be happy for VT or CA to blaze the trail here and see how it goes.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby KeithE » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:51 am

William Thornton wrote:...concerns about cost, financing. Eureka. Thanks. Sometimes a simple answer is all that is needed.

I'd be happy for VT or CA to blaze the trail here and see how it goes.

And simple minds without imagination or heart abound.

California or New York would be a better test - much larger than Vermont. But I see you really don’t want to dive into the facts to responsibly discuss this or any of the other 7 "People's Platform” bills - just like the House Repugnants will not even allow them to be seriously considered or brought to vote.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby William Thornton » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:59 am

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:...concerns about cost, financing. Eureka. Thanks. Sometimes a simple answer is all that is needed.

I'd be happy for VT or CA to blaze the trail here and see how it goes.

And simple minds without imagination or heart abound.


I've tweaked you and think your stuff is often tedious and offers only selective data but I have refrained from insulting you. That might be the better approach.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby KeithE » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:03 am

William Thornton wrote:
KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:...concerns about cost, financing. Eureka. Thanks. Sometimes a simple answer is all that is needed.

I'd be happy for VT or CA to blaze the trail here and see how it goes.

And simple minds without imagination or heart abound.


I've tweaked you and think your stuff is often tedious and offers only selective data but I have refrained from insulting you. That might be the better approach.

You insult me by ignoring me and my research/links/plots on virtually every subject. And I read every “mod/lib” or “collectivist” as an insult in William-speech.

Provide you own “selective” data!
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby Jon Estes » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:53 am

David Flick wrote:
KeithE wrote:It is not enough to oppose Trump and his policies. A truly progressive movement is needed to Make America a Greatly Improved Country (MAGIC hats anyone?)

The People’s Platform - 8 House Bills

Health Care for All: H.R. 676 Medicare For All Act, introduced by Congressman John Conyers, Jr. (D-Mich).

College for All: H.R. 1880 College for All Act of 2017, introduced by Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal (WA-07)

Workers’ Rights: H.R.15 - Raise the Wage Act, introduced by Representatives Bobby Scott (D-VA) and Keith Ellison (D-MN).

Women’s Reproductive Rights: H.R.771 - Equal Access to Abortion Coverage in Health Insurance (EACH Woman) Act of 2017, introduced by Rep. Lee, Barbara (D-CA).

Voting Rights: H.R.2840 - Automatic Voter Registration Act, introduced by Rep. Cicilline, David N. (D-RI).

Criminal Justice and Immigrant Rights: Justice is Not For Sale Act of 2017, introduced by Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.)

Tax on Wall Street: H.R. 1144 - Inclusive Prosperity Act, introduced by Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN).

Protecting the Environment: H.R. 2242 - Keep It in the Ground Act, introduced by Rep. Jared Huffman (D-CA)


All are well intentioned (even H.R. 771 makes sense in the pluralistic culture with differing views of abortion).

1Other countries (happier ones) already do all of these things and we could do so ourselves 2if the RW politics of the status quo benefitting rich people/corporations were dispelled.
    1) Name (and document with credible data) just two of the so-called "happier countries" that already do ALL of the 8 things listed by "The People's Platform". You can't do it. Both you and the Common Dreams website are delusional...

    2) Yeah sure, just blame all of everything that disagrees with the left's Progressive ideology on right wing politics. The reason Trump was elected was because the country is fed up to the gills with the Progressive ideology dumped on us the last 8 years by the Obama Administration. Others here can express my two points far better than I can.
A couple of the H.R’s will require more taxes on all people like H.R. 676 and H.R. 1880 (but at the same time make life better and cheaper for the people)

H.R. 1144 would raise more money (from stock traders, that is the upper half of Americans, at a rate of 0.5% per trade which is far less than the ~8% sales tax we now pay when we purchase other things than stocks).

The other 5 H.R.’s are approximately revenue neutral.

At a minimum the CBO should score these bills.


David,

There is no end until capitalism is removed... The Constitution rewritten... Boarders removed... The USA no longer what we love her for... Whites labeled for what the progressives think we are (if removing gender is this easy, making white progressives non-white will be a breeze)... only whites around by identity will be conservatives who do not think the gov should pay for everything.

If health care is a human right and someone should carry them... what's next? ---- groceries ---- college ---- car ---- the list does not end.

The Bern will burn us all.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby William Thornton » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:17 am

KeithE wrote:You insult me by ignoring me and my research/links/plots on virtually every subject. And I read every “mod/lib” or “collectivist” as an insult in William-speech.

Provide you own “selective” data![/quote]

Not a personal insult, Keith. You are smart enough to know the difference.

On Monday in this topic you said,
It is only for those who have bought the RW dogma that collectivism can never work, who say these proven programs will fail (so much so they say anyone who disagrees is “delusional").


You like collectivism but wish not to be called a collectivist? Doesn't matter to me but that's where I got the term.

Mod/lib seems fairly accurate. You dislike it? Prefer the full term or terms? My feeling in use of that towards you, tim carries no rancor.

You should have bottled some water from one of those happy countries you have cruised to lately.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby KeithE » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:24 pm

William Thornton wrote:On Monday in this topic you said,
It is only for those who have bought the RW dogma that collectivism can never work, who say these proven programs will fail (so much so they say anyone who disagrees is “delusional").


You like collectivism but wish not to be called a collectivist? Doesn't matter to me but that's where I got the term.

Mod/lib seems fairly accurate. You dislike it? Prefer the full term or terms? My feeling in use of that towards you, tim carries no rancor.

You should have bottled some water from one of those happy countries you have cruised to lately.


In William-speech “collectivist” and “mod/lib” is an insult. I generally call you a “conservative” and not a “fundamentalist" (by my defn: a believer in inerrancy), because I know you prefer “conservative”.

Just Flick-speech, an “alarmist” is an insult; although I feel the alarm must be sounded loud and clear. Lately, I’ve been trying to call David a “GW skeptic” instead of “denialist”. David is less frustrating you you are since he at least does some research. You just sling it, but what bothers me most is not doing good faith research (at least that you share on BL) - just instant snide comments.

Funny you should mention “bottled some water from one of those happy countries”. I have two big glass bottles of Voss water from Norway (#1 happy and “#1 Llife quality”country in the world). That Voss water packaged in glass was the only water pure enough for Brandy when she was having Eosinophilic Esophagitis problems (that has cleared up). Using old Voss bottles to make soda stream flavors, carbonated water. More than you ever wanted to know.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby William Thornton » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:05 pm

Here's as far as you can go on this: you can say that you are insulted to be called a 'mod/lib' but you can't say that I use it as an insult, which identifes part of your problem - believing that you know others' state-of-mind.

If I wanted to insult you I have the vocabulary do so...but I don't wish to insult you.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby KeithE » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:23 pm

William Thornton wrote:Here's as far as you can go on this: you can say that you are insulted to be called a 'mod/lib' but you can't say that I use it as an insult, which identifes part of your problem - believing that you know others' state-of-mind.

If I wanted to insult you I have the vocabulary do so...but I don't wish to insult you.

I can easily spot the difference between your disagreement language and that of rvaughn though your differences with mine are about the same. He shows good faith in actually trying to understand another’s point of view and does not approach anything close to a put off insult. He disagrees but that is all.

This is a long, long term problem between myself and you - so I guess I should just give up trying to explain or fix it. NTMAWR will be my acronym (instead of CHINMUKO). It means “not treating my arguments with respect”.
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Re: The People’s Platform

Postby William Thornton » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:31 pm

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Here's as far as you can go on this: you can say that you are insulted to be called a 'mod/lib' but you can't say that I use it as an insult, which identifes part of your problem - believing that you know others' state-of-mind.

If I wanted to insult you I have the vocabulary do so...but I don't wish to insult you.

I can easily spot the difference between your disagreement language and that of rvaughn though your differences with mine are about the same. He shows good faith in actually trying to understand another’s point of view and does not approach anything close to a put off insult. He disagrees but that is all.

This is a long, long term problem between myself and you - so I guess I should just give up trying to explain or fix it. NTMAWR will be my acronym (instead of CHINMUKO). It means “not treating my arguments with respect”.


I don't consider it a problem. Perhaps you spot too much.
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