Antifa

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Re: Antifa

Postby Sandy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:23 pm

Jim wrote:Black supremacists see what they conceive of as a battle between the vast majority (whites) and themselves, no matter how hard both groups try to reach common ground, usually by a lot of talk and little else except for governmental mandates (especially in the 50s-60s), which have helped a few blacks but not the majority. The differences are inherently in place and harmony is an impossibility. All the greeting-eating-meetings will not change inborn differences.


For the tiny handful of "black supremacists" that may exist, harmony may be an impossibility, but no more so than the far more numerous white supremacists, including those who try to hide behind robes and hoods, though since Trump, that's all out in the open now. For the vast majority of both whites and African Americans, harmony is not only possible, it exists in wide swaths of the culture already. There are a lot of groups that exist which promote the advancement of African Americans as a race, not because they believe they are superior, but because they have learned that it is the quickest and most effective way to equality. Any time you have a group of African Americans aspiring to success, especially in an aggressive, forward moving manner, you'll get the name calling and the resistance from some quarters, because there are still whites who can't handle it, and who are afraid of a level playing field where being African American isn't an automatic disadvantage.

The one institution of American culture that should be waving the flag of racial harmony, color-blindness, and unity is the church. The divisiveness, bigotry and hate in racism is antithetical to the gospel of Christ, and if there is any place in society where harmony should exist in abundance, that's where it should be. There are some Christians and churches in America that have been on the cutting edge of racial harmony and equality, mostly African American, and mostly liberal. But I think any honest consideration of the issue would have to conclude that churches have, by and large, been an agent of divisiveness, not unity. With God, all things are possible, but I guess you don't believe that.
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Re: Antifa

Postby Jim » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:03 pm

Sandy wrote:
Jim wrote:Black supremacists see what they conceive of as a battle between the vast majority (whites) and themselves, no matter how hard both groups try to reach common ground, usually by a lot of talk and little else except for governmental mandates (especially in the 50s-60s), which have helped a few blacks but not the majority. The differences are inherently in place and harmony is an impossibility. All the greeting-eating-meetings will not change inborn differences.


With God, all things are possible, but I guess you don't believe that.


Definition of guess: to form an opinion of from little or no evidence. Nuff said? P-u-h-l-e-e-e-z-z-z spare me the little afternoon homily. I would never have GUESSED, however, that with God all things are possible so your acknowledgement of that must make the Archangel Michael ring the heavens with hallelujahs. A mere mortal has just discovered a great truth.
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Re: Antifa

Postby JE Pettibone » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:57 pm

Jim wrote:
Sandy wrote:
Jim wrote:Black supremacists see what they conceive of as a battle between the vast majority (whites) and themselves, no matter how hard both groups try to reach common ground, usually by a lot of talk and little else except for governmental mandates (especially in the 50s-60s), which have helped a few blacks but not the majority. The differences are inherently in place and harmony is an impossibility. All the greeting-eating-meetings will not change inborn differences.


With God, all things are possible, but I guess you don't believe that.


Definition of guess: to form an opinion of from little or no evidence. Nuff said? P-u-h-l-e-e-e-z-z-z spare me the little afternoon homily. I would never have GUESSED, however, that with God all things are possible so your acknowledgement of that must make the Archangel Michael ring the heavens with hallelujahs. A mere mortal has just discovered a great truth.



Ed: Jim, I am often in your corner but when you write
The differences are inherently in place and harmony is an impossibility. All the greeting-eating-meetings will not change inborn differences.
it certainly sounds to me that you do not believe that with God ALL things are possible. In fact it sounds downright bigoted. Perhaps this is a matter of semantics, so would you explain what "differences are inherently in place" and why " harmony is an impossibility." ?
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Re: Antifa

Postby Jim » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:57 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:

Ed: Jim, I am often in your corner but when you write
The differences are inherently in place and harmony is an impossibility. All the greeting-eating-meetings will not change inborn differences.
it certainly sounds to me that you do not believe that with God ALL things are possible. In fact it sounds downright bigoted. Perhaps this is a matter of semantics, so would you explain what "differences are inherently in place" and why " harmony is an impossibility." ?


I have no doubt that with God all things are possible, but we're not dealing with what God can do but with what man DOES. Or, with what Nature does. God could have spared Rockport from the hurricane and no doubt millions of prayers were offered to stave off that weather phenomena, but it happened. Man, rather than getting God to forestall it, has the job of cleaning it up. This world ain't Camelot, even though it was made by God. Check out Deut. 7:3-4...You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly. Just how BIGOTED did that make God? Or, check II Cor. 6:14...Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? How semantic a difference is that? God the Creator realized what I've said and in fact made sure of the differences when he did his thing at Babel. This is why DIVERSITY is such a crock. The word itself nullifies harmony. Integration is and never has been the answer. Tolerance is the answer and it's God's remedy. And churches would do well to realize this and stop trying to make artificiality the norm. The differences are inborn--red and yellow black and white--and man cannot change that. If God decides to do that, he CAN, but apparently hasn't done it yet.
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Re: Antifa

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:15 pm

Funny, Jim, but the verses you cite from Deuteronomy are about Semites marrying other Semites where there was a religious difference. Guess you only learned to read them in Southern contexts.
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Re: Antifa

Postby Sandy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:33 pm

Oh, that's always good, an Old Testament passage about Israel, taken out of context and applied to something for which it has no meaning, and a New Testament verse also taken out of context. Neither verse has anything at all to do with race, or with any contention of yours. Why not throw in some of that "curse of Ham" stuff that was used to justify slavery?

It's not a matter of possibilities, it is a matter of will. If you buy into this white supremacist, "White Christian America" crap, then of course you buy into the impossibility of racial reconciliation and harmony. You can spout scripture out of context all you want to, it is contrary to the very nature of God, and the humanity he created, to separate into antagonistic hate groups based on race. And the "both sides are guilty" argument is a lie. Even if there is a "Black Supremacist" movement, such groups spring up as reactionary responses to racism and bigotry directed at them. From personal experience, I find African Americans and Latinos, and most people of other races far more accepting, and willing to relate as equals than some Caucasians.
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Re: Antifa

Postby Jim » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:17 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:Funny, Jim, but the verses you cite from Deuteronomy are about Semites marrying other Semites where there was a religious difference. Guess you only learned to read them in Southern contexts.


You always think I'm funny, a sort of kook. The verses condemn people, Semites or not (if that's actually the fact), who don't use God-mandated restraints whether they like it or not. And the fact is what it is. God plainly discriminated against one group in favor of another. That doesn't set well with the mod-libs, who think God is the nice old uncle in the attic and both Jesus and Paul as utter, hopeless wimps. Whites continually try to lure blacks into their churches for blessed togetherness (love thy neighbor as thyself) but blacks don't seem to have that urge with regard to assimilating whites, whom they often rightly judge as evincing a sort of superior education and spirituality. They laugh in scorn, as they should do when they see the white self-guilt expressed in this pomposity. People should go to the church they desire regardless of its nature or racial predominance. They should do it voluntarily and not as the result of being pressured/orchestrated. Funny, ain't it...or silly?
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Re: Antifa

Postby Jim » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:29 pm

Sandy wrote:Oh, that's always good, an Old Testament passage about Israel, taken out of context and applied to something for which it has no meaning, and a New Testament verse also taken out of context. Neither verse has anything at all to do with race, or with any contention of yours. Why not throw in some of that "curse of Ham" stuff that was used to justify slavery?

It's not a matter of possibilities, it is a matter of will. If you buy into this white supremacist, "White Christian America" crap, then of course you buy into the impossibility of racial reconciliation and harmony. You can spout scripture out of context all you want to, it is contrary to the very nature of God, and the humanity he created, to separate into antagonistic hate groups based on race. And the "both sides are guilty" argument is a lie. Even if there is a "Black Supremacist" movement, such groups spring up as reactionary responses to racism and bigotry directed at them. From personal experience, I find African Americans and Latinos, and most people of other races far more accepting, and willing to relate as equals than some Caucasians.


When you have nothing of substance to offer, you retreat to that old "out of context" caveat. It's convenient and doesn't require any original thinking. Those statements were as clear-cut as it gets but they don't fit in with the warm-fuzzies and hugs-all-around that sound great and amount to less than nothing. Black people take a back-seat to nobody spiritually but your ilk believes you can "lift them up" by just being in their presence. What a crock! They don't need whites ushered into their churches and understand the fraud for what it is. They're welcome in my church any time, and a few come. I'm not likely to attend theirs on a Sunday because their style of worship (not to mention length) is not for me, so, as somebody said, I'm the penultimate bigot.
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Re: Antifa

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:40 pm

William Thornton wrote:Right. Brownshirts. They decide what speech is acceptable. Surely you see this.


William, what I see is conservative Christians being more comfortable with Nazis and the KKK than they are with far left liberals. The far left liberals (ANTIFA) are targeting Nazis and racists. The Nazis are targeting black people, Jews and LGBTQ people.

I’m having a hard time being as upset about someone targeting Nazis (a hate group) as you seem to be. I think we spend a good bit of the 1940s targeting a Nazi regime that killed millions of Jews. IMO the US should have adopted the same laws that Germany adopted after WWII. No hate groups such as Nazis allowed. It should be a crime to be a Nazi or a member of the KKK because they are clearly domestic terrorist hate groups. I understand It is a crime to be a Nazi in Germany. Yet the allies who beat Germany in the war allow Nazis in our midst.

While I’m not advocating the vigilante justice of ANTIFA, I can sure understand people wanting to put the hurt on white supremistic terrorists. I can understand them wanting to rid our nation of a set of teachings that led to the death of millions.
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Re: Antifa

Postby KeithE » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:02 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Right. Brownshirts. They decide what speech is acceptable. Surely you see this.


William, what I see is conservative Christians being more comfortable with Nazis and the KKK than they are with far left liberals. The far left liberals (ANTIFA) are targeting Nazis and racists. The Nazis are targeting black people, Jews and LGBTQ people.

I’m having a hard time being as upset about someone targeting Nazis (a hate group) as you seem to be. I think we spend a good bit of the 1940s targeting a Nazi regime that killed millions of Jews. IMO the US should have adopted the same laws that Germany adopted after WWII. No hate groups such as Nazis allowed. It should be a crime to be a Nazi or a member of the KKK because they are clearly domestic terrorist hate groups. I understand It is a crime to be a Nazi in Germany. Yet the allies who beat Germany in the war allow Nazis in our midst.

While I’m not advocating the vigilante justice of ANTIFA, I can sure understand people wanting to put the hurt on white supremistic terrorists. I can understand them wanting to rid our nation of a set of teachings that led to the death of millions.


I agree. There is no moral or numerical equivalence between hate groups (917 such groups) and Antifa efforts. But I do prefer the non-violent approach to protestation that Gandhi and MLK advocate.
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Re: Antifa

Postby William Thornton » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:46 am

Timothy, you wish to eliminate the first amendment rights of the group's you label hate groups? The antifa thugs are targeting a wider group than nazis and racists. We targeted nazis in WWII who were invading countries, killing Jews and others. I favor doing the same domestically. We punish deeds, not thoughts in our country. In the country where libs like you are in charge thoughts will be punished. Neo nazis have constitutional rights. The reason we didn't adopt the same laws that Germany did after the war is because we have a Bill of Rights. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

Keith, the SPLC hate map is a joke. Every southern baptist church I know would be on the map as an anti-LGBT hate group because they oppose same sex marriage and believe homosexual immorality is sinful.

I do not know a single southern baptist who is more comfortable with KKK and nazis than far left liberals. Find one.

I suppose it's progress for both of you to condemn violence and vigilante justice.
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Re: Antifa

Postby William Thornton » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:01 am

I used to admire the SPLC. Now they do little legal work ($61k last reported year against assets of $350 or so million). They offshore money in the Caymans and British Virgin Islands. Bit of a letdown from their glory days of shutting down klan groups by going after their assets.

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Re: Antifa

Postby KeithE » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:18 am

William Thornton wrote:Timothy, you wish to eliminate the first amendment rights of the group's you label hate groups? The antifa thugs are targeting a wider group than nazis and racists. We targeted nazis in WWII who were invading countries, killing Jews and others. I favor doing the same domestically. We punish deeds, not thoughts in our country. In the country where libs like you are in charge thoughts will be punished. Neo nazis have constitutional rights. The reason we didn't adopt the same laws that Germany did after the war is because we have a Bill of Rights. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

Keith, the SPLC hate map is a joke. Every southern baptist church I know would be on the map as an anti-LGBT hate group because they oppose same sex marriage and believe homosexual immorality is sinful.

I do not know a single southern baptist who is more comfortable with KKK and nazis than far left liberals. Find one.

I suppose it's progress for both of you to condemn violence and vigilante justice.


More stray thoughts. Last sentence particularly stray.
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Re: Antifa

Postby Jim » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:46 am

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Timothy, you wish to eliminate the first amendment rights of the group's you label hate groups? The antifa thugs are targeting a wider group than nazis and racists. We targeted nazis in WWII who were invading countries, killing Jews and others. I favor doing the same domestically. We punish deeds, not thoughts in our country. In the country where libs like you are in charge thoughts will be punished. Neo nazis have constitutional rights. The reason we didn't adopt the same laws that Germany did after the war is because we have a Bill of Rights. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

Keith, the SPLC hate map is a joke. Every southern baptist church I know would be on the map as an anti-LGBT hate group because they oppose same sex marriage and believe homosexual immorality is sinful.

I do not know a single southern baptist who is more comfortable with KKK and nazis than far left liberals. Find one.

I suppose it's progress for both of you to condemn violence and vigilante justice.


More stray thoughts. Last sentence particularly stray.


Billionaire George Soros, probably the highest-profile antagonist toward the USA, is a (probably the most important) benefactor of the SPLC, which does your defining of “hate groups,” actually any group anyone decides is such. This is from http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1237: Soros' funding activities are devoted largely to helping the Democratic Party solidify its power base. In a November 2003 interview, Soros stated that defeating President Bush in 2004 "is the central focus of my life" ... "a matter of life and death." He pledged to raise $75 million to defeat Bush, and personally donated nearly a third of that amount to anti-Bush organizations. Some of his funding went to the Clergy Network (or something like that) headed by Dr. Pennybacker, with James Dunn and Jesse Jackson on its board. It didn't work but it's a prime example of the AntiFacist outfit, a genuinely well-documented fomenter of hate and hateful tactics and a mover and shaker in the Democrat (now Progressive) Party of Sanders/Clinton, totally socialistic and irredeemably violent. The Clergy Network was confined in the beginning just to ministers, a non-hate group, of course.
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Re: Antifa

Postby KeithE » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:04 am

William Thornton wrote:I used to admire the SPLC. Now they do little legal work ($61k last reported year against assets of $350 or so million). They offshore money in the Caymans and British Virgin Islands. Bit of a letdown from their glory days of shutting down klan groups by going after their assets.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/southern-p ... -entities/

I guess this is progress on William's part. He actually found a critical review of the SPLC from the Washington Free Beacon (WFB), now since 2014 a for-profit, conservative news/opinion organization.

Congrats, William. That is more than “stray thoughts”. Maybe you respond to maps; just not plotted graphs.

I note that this article was written yesterday and the SPLC has not responded yet to my knowledge.

SPLC was founded and remains a tax-exempt, non-profit organization. Sure its founder has a 6-figure salary (Morris Dees salary after 40 years service is $329K*; that is a 22:1 ratio wrt min wage, while William has thought it just fine that CEOs have 300:1 ratios). By contrast here are some other non-profits CEO salaries. Just heard on TV that the American Red Cross CEO gets a salary of $500K (confirmed on previous link - page down some).

It is true that the SPLC has grown large and been successful in getting donations from companies like Apple* and JP Morgan* and has parked some of those donations in the Cayman Islands*. But remember they are a tax-exempt organization so it is not like it is tax avoidance let alone tax evasion.

I could not find the figure of $61K of SPLC legal work performed that William mentioned (maybe he could provide that) and inappropriately contrasted that with the SPLC’s assets which he said was “$350M or so". But I did look into their 2014 tax returns. They spent $45M in 2014 ($24M is compensation to victims, $18M in salaries/other compensation, and $2M in fundraising) while having income (donations) of $54M. https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/990-10-31-15.pdf. Note they have provided their tax returns and they appear to be healthy financially (assets of $315M). And their Charity Navigator Rating is 86 out of 100 (3 out of 4 stars) with a transparency rating of 97%. https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4482

As for its inclusion of anti-LGBTs on their hate list organizations, they do not just lump any church that is "oppose(d to) same sex marriage and believe homosexual immorality is sinful” (as William suggested) into that category. They must be promoting hatred and/or violence towards LGBTs (like the infamous Westboro BC which is on the map). At any rate they have only 52 entities (out of the 917) that are anti-LBGT and only about ten of the 52 are individual churches - most are organizations (some of which call themselves “Christian” like the Family Research Council).

My claim was that there is no “moral or numeric” equivalence between the RW and LW groups. As for the “numeric”, I stand by my claim that RW “hate groups" far outnumber LW “antifa” groups. William has a long ways to go to prove otherwise. As for the “moral” equivalence, each will have to answer to their conscience (I’m with Timothy, fighting bigots and nazis is honorable if kept non-violent).


* asterisks means the WFB claim is to be verified (looking at the sort of “news” that the WFB does, I have some doubts).
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Re: Antifa

Postby Haruo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:31 am

Post on FB regarding Neo-Nazis and Anti-Fa, well worth the read (in fact, I think the comment thread is well worth the read, too).
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Re: Antifa

Postby William Thornton » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:44 am

Splc is being sued. Surely you are up on that. Glad to see Keith blithely dismiss the offshoring of funds. This is not typical for non-profits. Might be a story there.

Whatever...splc is a crappy org compared to what they were.
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Re: Antifa

Postby KeithE » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:02 pm

Jim wrote:
KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Timothy, you wish to eliminate the first amendment rights of the group's you label hate groups? The antifa thugs are targeting a wider group than nazis and racists. We targeted nazis in WWII who were invading countries, killing Jews and others. I favor doing the same domestically. We punish deeds, not thoughts in our country. In the country where libs like you are in charge thoughts will be punished. Neo nazis have constitutional rights. The reason we didn't adopt the same laws that Germany did after the war is because we have a Bill of Rights. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

Keith, the SPLC hate map is a joke. Every southern baptist church I know would be on the map as an anti-LGBT hate group because they oppose same sex marriage and believe homosexual immorality is sinful.

I do not know a single southern baptist who is more comfortable with KKK and nazis than far left liberals. Find one.

I suppose it's progress for both of you to condemn violence and vigilante justice.


More stray thoughts. Last sentence particularly stray.


Billionaire George Soros, probably the highest-profile antagonist toward the USA, is a (probably the most important) benefactor of the SPLC, which does your defining of “hate groups,” actually any group anyone decides is such. This is from http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1237: Soros' funding activities are devoted largely to helping the Democratic Party solidify its power base. In a November 2003 interview, Soros stated that defeating President Bush in 2004 "is the central focus of my life" ... "a matter of life and death." He pledged to raise $75 million to defeat Bush, and personally donated nearly a third of that amount to anti-Bush organizations. Some of his funding went to the Clergy Network (or something like that) headed by Dr. Pennybacker, with James Dunn and Jesse Jackson on its board. It didn't work but it's a prime example of the AntiFacist outfit, a genuinely well-documented fomenter of hate and hateful tactics and a mover and shaker in the Democrat (now Progressive) Party of Sanders/Clinton, totally socialistic and irredeemably violent. The Clergy Network was confined in the beginning just to ministers, a non-hate group, of course.


Show me where George Soros is a "benefactor of the SPLC”. Until we have true campaign finance reform, campaign contributions from rich people and corporations will continue to contaminate our political process.

It is your right to call George Soros an "antagonist toward the USA” and Sanders/Clinton as “totally socialistic and irredeemably violent”. I call that cynical and wrongheaded (except perhaps that Hillary is "violent”).

Could not find the Clergy Network or Dr. Pennybacker that seems like what you are talking about.
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Re: Antifa

Postby KeithE » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:05 pm

William Thornton wrote:Splc is being sued. Surely you are up on that. Glad to see Keith blithely dismiss the offshoring of funds. This is not typical for non-profits. Might be a story there.

Whatever...splc is a crappy org compared to what they were.


I see you are back to stray thoughts.
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Re: Antifa

Postby Sandy » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:57 pm

William Thornton wrote:I do not know a single southern baptist who is more comfortable with KKK and nazis than far left liberals. Find one.
:lol:

Then I'd say you either don't know very many Southern Baptists, or those you do know do a good job of hiding their associations, or you're just ignoring it because you don't want to be critical of white supremacists or the violence they instigate and use as a weapon in their ideological war on everyone who doesn't think like them.

I took a position as a part-time music/youth pastor at a church in Texas when I was in seminary, and within a week of being there, got asked to join two organizations--the Masons, and the KKK. The deacon who invited me to join the Klan didn't like it when I said no, and told me that if I really wanted to stay around, I'd reconsider. I should have just left the church then, but I did a couple of things that got me booted inside of a year. One, I had African Americans and Latinos coming to youth group on Wednesday night. No reason not to, as the church was in a neighborhood "on the other side of the tracks," so to speak, predominantly black with some Latinos. Two, I extended an invitation to the African American Baptist church three blocks up the street (also SBC affiliated) to bring their choir and merge Sunday evening worship on Race Relations Sunday. Given the pastor's reaction, I guessed he was in the Klan, too. I think the "men's Bible study" that met in our fellowship hall once a month was probably not that. It was never advertised in the bulletin, and after I left, considering who came to it, I figure it was probably the Klan's monthly meeting.

Up until 2010, I had served either bi-vocationally or full-time in SBC churches in Texas, Kentucky and Missouri, and at three Christian schools connected to SBC churches, and I can certainly make some observations about them. All of the churches I served except the one in Missouri had Klan members in the congregation, and I know many of the members well enough to say that a majority of them would make the same kind of excuse, "both sides are at fault," rather than utter a single critical word against white supremacy, the alt-right, or the Klan. And for the most part, they might turn up their noses at violence, but many of them wouldn't be opposed to the idealism of a "white Christian America," nor to the idea of white supremacy.

Look around. The most vocal Baptist voices against the violence and hatred demonstrated by the alt-right-Klan-Neo Nazi white supremacists in Charlottesville are coming out of CBF, which is also being pro-active in addressing the issue further. Some well-known SBC leaders have spoken out, like Russell Moore, or Al Mohler, but looking beyond that, you can hear the crickets chirping.
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Re: Antifa

Postby JE Pettibone » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:08 pm

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Splc is being sued. Surely you are up on that. Glad to see Keith blithely dismiss the offshoring of funds. This is not typical for non-profits. Might be a story there.

Whatever...splc is a crappy org compared to what they were.


I see you are back to stray thoughts.


Ed: So Keith, what in Williams thoughts expressed in the above quote stray from the discussion the two of you where are having?

It is a fact that D. James Kennedy Ministries has sued SPLC for deformation. Nor is it typical for non-profit organizations to deal with offshore banks.

And I agree wit William, SPLC does not compare today to what once was.
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Re: Antifa

Postby KeithE » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:03 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:
KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Splc is being sued. Surely you are up on that. Glad to see Keith blithely dismiss the offshoring of funds. This is not typical for non-profits. Might be a story there.

Whatever...splc is a crappy org compared to what they were.


I see you are back to stray thoughts.


Ed: So Keith, what in Williams thoughts expressed in the above quote stray from the discussion the two of you where are having?

It is a fact that D. James Kennedy Ministries has sued SPLC for deformation. Nor is it typical for non-profit organizations to deal with offshore banks.

And I agree wit William, SPLC does not compare today to what once was.


The "stray thoughts” comes from William’s byline and my longstanding observation that he does very little research (and supplies very little backup for his opinions) before posting here on BL - just immediate reactions (often within minutes) seldom showing he has read any detailed stuff he is responding to. At least his “stray thoughts” is truth-in-advertising.

As for why the SPLC has hate listed D James Kennedy Ministries (aka Coral Ridge Ministry):

The late Rev. D. James Kennedy started turning fundamentalist Coral Ridge Presbyterian into a mega-church in the 1960s, adding Coral Ridge Ministries (CRM) as its action arm in 1974 and claiming some 10,000 members by the 1990s. During the fiscal year ending in June 2009, CRM raised almost $18 million and spent more than $6 million of that on television and radio outreach efforts.

Over the years, Kennedy emphasized anti-gay rhetoric, particularly in his TV ministry. He recommended as “essential” the virulent work of R.J. Rushdoony (see Chalcedon Foundation, above), who believed practicing gays should be executed. In an especially nasty 1989 edition of a CRM newsletter, Kennedy ran photographs of children along with the tagline, “Sex With Children? Homosexuals Say Yes!”


Calling for execution is hate(full) and violent. Saying homosexuals encourage “sex with children” is slanderous. It goes well beyond saying homosexuality is sinful.

I'll follow this suit as it unfolds. It could go either way as far as I know the facts or the judge(s) to be involved.
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Re: Antifa

Postby David Flick » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:16 pm

William Thornton wrote:I do not know a single southern baptist who is more comfortable with KKK and nazis than far left liberals. Find one.
    Sandy wrote:I took a position as a part-time music/youth pastor at a church in Texas when I was in seminary, and within a week of being there, got asked to join two organizations--the Masons, and the KKK. The deacon who invited me to join the Klan didn't like it when I said no, and told me that if I really wanted to stay around, I'd reconsider.

      Sandy, I flat out don't believe you were ever asked by a Southern Baptist deacon to join the KKK. Through the past several years you have made numerous wild negative claims about Southern Baptists, but this one takes the cake. I say this as an ex-SBCer who has experienced some pretty lurid things from them. I think your boast is a falsehood.
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Re: Antifa

Postby JE Pettibone » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:22 pm

Ed: David, my old friend you seem to have a higher opinion of Southern Baptist deacons in general than do I. I have far greater doubt about some one asking Sandy to join the Masons, than i do about his being invited by a deacon to join the Klan. Even so, I can not say it never happened.
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Re: Antifa

Postby Sandy » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:44 pm

David Flick wrote:Sandy, I flat out don't believe you were ever asked by a Southern Baptist deacon to join the KKK. Through the past several years you have made numerous wild negative claims about Southern Baptists, but this one takes the cake. I say this as an ex-SBCer who has experienced some pretty lurid things from them. I think your boast is a falsehood.


You've made some wild negative claims about Southern Baptists over the years yourself, and accusations against Anthony Jordan and the leadership of the BGCO. So you're reversing your previous position? You're one of the leading SBC critics here, David, and you've given many hearty "Amens" to many of the things I've posted, even a golden spur or two, as I recall. Frankly, I couldn't care less what you believe.
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