Till nothing is left...

The place to discuss politics and policy issues that are not directly related to matters of faith.

Moderator: KeithE

Till nothing is left...

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:40 am

There seems to be a movement to remove any and all things that some people find offensive. The list is getting longer...

A cross
10 Commandments
Student reading a Bible in school
A police officer telling someone to stop
Saying Merry Christmas
A statue of someone whose ideology is/was different than theirs

The list is much longer but I think you can get what I am conveying.

There is also a movement (my term) to push certain negative moral ideologies on others even if they find it offensive. The list is getting longer...

Same sex weddings
Christ out of the public square
Free everything (except that which has Christ values)
Open borders

If there is not a positive moral adjustment in American thinking and acting, the America I knew will no longer be.

Our history, though tainted with sinful actions, needs to be remembered and as we grow older we need to always be adjusting to becoming a better nation. To make such adjustment there needs to be a standard. Right now, it seems the USA does not know what the standard is... if there is one...

Where will all this lead?

Scared for my G-Kids.
Living in Dubai for that which I was purposed
User avatar
Jon Estes
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:14 am

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Rvaughn » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:26 am

A move to rid our society of certain things that are offensive to some people.
A move to incorporate into our society certain things that are offensive to some people.

Hmm. A well-developed agenda? Perhaps?
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:39 pm

A cross
10 Commandments
Student reading a Bible in school
A police officer telling someone to stop
Saying Merry Christmas
A statue of someone whose ideology is/was different than theirs


Honestly this is very strange response to the statue issue. All the items other than police profiling (my guess as to what you are talking about) and the statue issue is a religious issue.

Whatever you think about Robert E. Lee, he ain't Jesus and the KKK and the American Nazis aren't followers of Christ.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5510
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Jon Estes » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:36 am

Rvaughn wrote:A move to rid our society of certain things that are offensive to some people.
A move to incorporate into our society certain things that are offensive to some people.

Hmm. A well-developed agenda? Perhaps?


Doubtful.
Living in Dubai for that which I was purposed
User avatar
Jon Estes
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:14 am

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Jon Estes » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:12 am

Tim Bonney wrote:
A cross
10 Commandments
Student reading a Bible in school
A police officer telling someone to stop
Saying Merry Christmas
A statue of someone whose ideology is/was different than theirs


Honestly this is very strange response to the statue issue. All the items other than police profiling (my guess as to what you are talking about) and the statue issue is a religious issue.

Whatever you think about Robert E. Lee, he ain't Jesus and the KKK and the American Nazis aren't followers of Christ.


The statue issue is just one small part of a huge problem. It is not the straw that will break the camels back but I am of the opinion that the continual move away from the founder's dreams for this country will only change the landscape negatively. There may be a civil war, of some sort, coming? Doubtful it will include military but many... many minor altercations like Charlottesville.

We can't continue to...

1 - Support the killing babies for convenience
2 - Willfully reject Scripture on His design for marriage
3 - Support the plan of man to alter the genders of His creation.

I don't expect you, or too many here, to agree with my position but if you are excited about the leftward direction being fought to be acceptable if not the norm...America will reap what it sows.
Living in Dubai for that which I was purposed
User avatar
Jon Estes
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:14 am

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:31 am

Jon Estes wrote:The statue issue is just one small part of a huge problem. It is not the straw that will break the camels back but I am of the opinion that the continual move away from the founder's dreams for this country will only change the landscape negatively. There may be a civil war, of some sort, coming? Doubtful it will include military but many... many minor altercations like Charlottesville.

We can't continue to...

1 - Support the killing babies for convenience
2 - Willfully reject Scripture on His design for marriage
3 - Support the plan of man to alter the genders of His creation.

I don't expect you, or too many here, to agree with my position but if you are excited about the leftward direction being fought to be acceptable if not the norm...America will reap what it sows.


I am afraid America is already reaping what it has sown. The first was the assumption that slaves were only 3/5 human. The second has been our disregard for the OT prophets call for justice. We pledge allegiance to a flag that concludes with "liberty and justice for all." We have never upheld it. The third is reaping our enshrinement of the god on mammon or as an OT prophet added, "adding field onto field." The fourth we are reaping is our military adventurism in the interest of oil like our creation of and support for all sorts of petty tyrant kingdoms to feed our thirst for their black gold. We definitely reap what we sow, and far beyond sexual ethics.
"God will never be less than He is and does not need to be more" (John Koessler)

My blog: http://emporiadave.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Dave Roberts
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6888
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: Southside, VA

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Jim » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:04 am

Dave Roberts wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:The statue issue is just one small part of a huge problem. It is not the straw that will break the camels back but I am of the opinion that the continual move away from the founder's dreams for this country will only change the landscape negatively. There may be a civil war, of some sort, coming? Doubtful it will include military but many... many minor altercations like Charlottesville.

We can't continue to...

1 - Support the killing babies for convenience
2 - Willfully reject Scripture on His design for marriage
3 - Support the plan of man to alter the genders of His creation.

I don't expect you, or too many here, to agree with my position but if you are excited about the leftward direction being fought to be acceptable if not the norm...America will reap what it sows.


I am afraid America is already reaping what it has sown. The first was the assumption that slaves were only 3/5 human. The second has been our disregard for the OT prophets call for justice. We pledge allegiance to a flag that concludes with "liberty and justice for all." We have never upheld it. The third is reaping our enshrinement of the god on mammon or as an OT prophet added, "adding field onto field." The fourth we are reaping is our military adventurism in the interest of oil like our creation of and support for all sorts of petty tyrant kingdoms to feed our thirst for their black gold. We definitely reap what we sow, and far beyond sexual ethics.


For your screed to make any sense at all (if possible), just replace the word "we" by the word "I" all the way through. You can spout this crap on behalf of your guilt-ridden soul, but you certainly don't speak for me or any other reasonable person. Get rid of the word "our," too, and substitute "my" for it. Then talk about all the entitlements and rights of the 1960s and stew in your own juices. I have no idea what reaping beyond sexual ethics means unless you're referring to the ludicrousness of same-sex marriage, which I suspect you fully endorse as being properly sown.
Jim
 
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:44 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky.

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Haruo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:00 pm

Well, just for the record, I'm closer to Dave on most of this than to Jon and Jim. We/I will see what comes of it if we live long enough, and if not we can watch the reruns across the river.
Haruo (呂須•春男) = ᎭᎷᎣ = Leland Bryant Ross
Repeal the language taxLearn and use Esperanto
Fremont Baptist ChurchMy hymnblog
User avatar
Haruo
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11531
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:21 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:08 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:
I am afraid America is already reaping what it has sown. The first was the assumption that slaves were only 3/5 human. The second has been our disregard for the OT prophets call for justice. We pledge allegiance to a flag that concludes with "liberty and justice for all." We have never upheld it. The third is reaping our enshrinement of the god on mammon or as an OT prophet added, "adding field onto field." The fourth we are reaping is our military adventurism in the interest of oil like our creation of and support for all sorts of petty tyrant kingdoms to feed our thirst for their black gold. We definitely reap what we sow, and far beyond sexual ethics.


Agreed David. Racism has been part of our national heritage since the beginning and unless we are willing to root it out in some very painful ways we won't get rid of it.

Northerners are are racists too. We are just more subtle in our racism. We may not have put up statues to traitors, but we have participated just as much denying equal rights to people of color.

Where would you put a statue for your children to walk by of an individual who promoted starting a country to enslave your ancestors? A museum, maybe for historical purposes. In the public square to be lauded, no.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5510
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Sandy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:45 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:The statue issue is just one small part of a huge problem. It is not the straw that will break the camels back but I am of the opinion that the continual move away from the founder's dreams for this country will only change the landscape negatively. There may be a civil war, of some sort, coming? Doubtful it will include military but many... many minor altercations like Charlottesville.

We can't continue to...

1 - Support the killing babies for convenience
2 - Willfully reject Scripture on His design for marriage
3 - Support the plan of man to alter the genders of His creation.

I don't expect you, or too many here, to agree with my position but if you are excited about the leftward direction being fought to be acceptable if not the norm...America will reap what it sows.


I am afraid America is already reaping what it has sown. The first was the assumption that slaves were only 3/5 human. The second has been our disregard for the OT prophets call for justice. We pledge allegiance to a flag that concludes with "liberty and justice for all." We have never upheld it. The third is reaping our enshrinement of the god on mammon or as an OT prophet added, "adding field onto field." The fourth we are reaping is our military adventurism in the interest of oil like our creation of and support for all sorts of petty tyrant kingdoms to feed our thirst for their black gold. We definitely reap what we sow, and far beyond sexual ethics.


Well said.

I see only one covenant relationship in the Bible between a nation and God, and that was Israel. There's nothing in there, when interpreted in context, leads to a conclusion that a nation can engage in a covenant with God to accomplish the same purpose as God's covenant with Israel was intended to accomplish. Covenants with God are with individuals, through the blood of Christ, not through the nation to which you belong. The United States is not a "nation" in the sense that such are described in scripture. It is a country, a sovereign state, made up of people from multiple "nations", a self-governing democracy that has a constitution which extends guaranteed freedoms to all of its citizens. One of those guarantees, freedom of religion, means that people who practice no faith at all, or who are Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, New Age, Hottentot or Satanist are all free to follow their conscience.

For a good portion of our history, because Christians were in the majority, the influence of Christian faith was pushed into the public arena. At one point, Catholics felt that the public education system was so overwhelmingly Protestant, and was being used to convert their children to Protestant churches, that they began structuring the church to expand its schools and make them available to parish members. Jewish synagogues drew the same conclusion and did the same thing. Some of what is being lamented here is simply an adjustment taking place because of no longer taking Christian predominance for granted, and realizing that many of those things, like 10 commandments monuments or crosses on public property is a demonstration of favoring one religion over another, and doesn't meet the standards set to measure that constitutional provision. Throwing in the remark about Merry Christmas is just subterfuge that feeds the persecution complex many Christians develop around this sort of thing.

The issue of taking down statues and monuments to leaders of the Confederacy is much more complicated than this very simple statement about it. There's a lot more to it than just someone being "offended" by different "ideology" than their own. I hear a lot of whining about "erasing history" but the fact of the matter is that most people who see Confederate monuments as merely historical markers, or as the same thing to "Southern Culture" as similar monuments are to the rest of the United States, have absolutely no idea of the history of which they are speaking, and are ignorant of the ideology involved. I can make an argument that turns that back the other way pretty quickly. If you evaluate the Civil War according to Jon's perspective, then the defeat of the Confederacy was God's will, given that he only allowed it to exist for three years. It shouldn't be hard, then, to figure out why monuments and statues to its leaders have no place in our culture, and do nothing when it comes to "history."
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8049
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:10 pm
Location: Rural Western Pennsylvania

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:09 pm

Jim wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:The statue issue is just one small part of a huge problem. It is not the straw that will break the camels back but I am of the opinion that the continual move away from the founder's dreams for this country will only change the landscape negatively. There may be a civil war, of some sort, coming? Doubtful it will include military but many... many minor altercations like Charlottesville.

We can't continue to...

1 - Support the killing babies for convenience
2 - Willfully reject Scripture on His design for marriage
3 - Support the plan of man to alter the genders of His creation.

I don't expect you, or too many here, to agree with my position but if you are excited about the leftward direction being fought to be acceptable if not the norm...America will reap what it sows.


I am afraid America is already reaping what it has sown. The first was the assumption that slaves were only 3/5 human. The second has been our disregard for the OT prophets call for justice. We pledge allegiance to a flag that concludes with "liberty and justice for all." We have never upheld it. The third is reaping our enshrinement of the god on mammon or as an OT prophet added, "adding field onto field." The fourth we are reaping is our military adventurism in the interest of oil like our creation of and support for all sorts of petty tyrant kingdoms to feed our thirst for their black gold. We definitely reap what we sow, and far beyond sexual ethics.


For your screed to make any sense at all (if possible), just replace the word "we" by the word "I" all the way through. You can spout this crap on behalf of your guilt-ridden soul, but you certainly don't speak for me or any other reasonable person. Get rid of the word "our," too, and substitute "my" for it. Then talk about all the entitlements and rights of the 1960s and stew in your own juices. I have no idea what reaping beyond sexual ethics means unless you're referring to the ludicrousness of same-sex marriage, which I suspect you fully endorse as being properly sown.


Jim, I guess you subscribe only to individualism in ethics and social measures. If that is your direction, so be it. Go ahead and remove Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Hosea, and Malachi from your Bible since you don't believe what they say.
"God will never be less than He is and does not need to be more" (John Koessler)

My blog: http://emporiadave.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Dave Roberts
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6888
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: Southside, VA

Re: Till nothing is left...

Postby Jim » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:02 pm

DR: Jim, I guess you subscribe only to individualism in ethics and social measures. If that is your direction, so be it. Go ahead and remove Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Hosea, and Malachi from your Bible since you don't believe what they say.

Of course, I do, and so do you, guessing or not. I'm responsible for only my thinking/behavior. I don't subscribe to the collective mores of this country or to that of thousands of churches. I decide the nature of my ethics and how it affects social measures, or attempts to effect social measures. My individual psyche will make me function within that context, as per my determined Ethic (as long as I don't adversely impact other people). I'll take a pass on the Bible destruction since I haven't the faintest idea of what you mean by that undertaking. Some folks in this forum have already removed part of or all of Genesis, so what else is new?
Jim
 
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:44 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky.

I have a tee shirt that says

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:47 pm

" Jesus and the Confederate Flag, Removed from our Schools but not from our Hearts"

I was about to wear it to Patriots Park in Collinsville Alabama yesterday between the Lyberry and the RR Tracks but nobody was there so I joined the Party at City Hall.

But I never put the tee on.

In my Mind, Eclipse, (get it?) it was a political statement that woulda meant a lot to me but woulda confused a lot of other people.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
Stephen Fox
 
Posts: 8941
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:29 pm

Sandy and Jon Estes

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:49 pm

You could learn a little from Harvey's Moses, Jesus and the Trickster, but I imagine you are too proud to give it a shot. I'm humble enough to say I learned a good bit from it.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
Stephen Fox
 
Posts: 8941
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:29 pm

Re: Sandy and Jon Estes

Postby Jon Estes » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:42 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:You could learn a little from Harvey's Moses, Jesus and the Trickster, but I imagine you are too proud to give it a shot. I'm humble enough to say I learned a good bit from it.


Still in a stumper I see. :roll: :roll:
:roll:
Living in Dubai for that which I was purposed
User avatar
Jon Estes
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:14 am


Return to Politics and Public Policy Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jon Estes and 1 guest