What a difference a day makes

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What a difference a day makes

Postby Sandy » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:10 pm

Yesterday, Trump, through his attorney, acknowledged that they were glad Comey's testimony came out and that he confirmed the president was not under investigation (at least, not at the time of the firing). Today, a different story, and a different approach. Seems it takes his White House staffers a little while to catch on and plan a strategy. So someone is lying. Who? Well, compare the evidence from the past. Remember what a great guy Comey was when he went to Congress after the FBI report cleared Hillary on the email issue? He was a great, honest guy. So he visits with Trump, takes notes and documents the conversations, accuses him of being a liar several times (well, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it has lied through its teeth hundreds of times even on camera) and so after about 24 hours of planning, Trump decides to call Comey a liar.

I don't think anyone is going to have a problem figuring out who is lying, and who is not. :wink:
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby KeithE » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:28 am

As far as truthfulness is concerned, Comey has much more credibility than Trump. Period.

Trump yesterday said:

"from what everyone I’ve met with today, I could have stop it” referring to the Flynn investigation. Imo, he is laying the groundwork to do just that - which would be a travesty of justice.

""I will tell you about it over a very short period of time” referring to the “tapes”. Imo, he and his lawyers are reviewing those recordings (no one uses tapes anymore) to see if they will help or hurt him (or perhaps more sinisterly modifying those recordings). He added that the press will be “disappointed” and would not even say if the the “tapes” existed or not. That is a sidestep- which is a form of lying in my book when he obviously could answer that question.

“It was a total and complete lie” referring the Comey’s testimony. I’d call that hyperbole (another form of lying).

Through himself, his lawyer and his son Eric, he said in various ways that he was "totally vindicated" by the Comey testimony. This is another instance showing that he is delusional.

He also had a speech on Infrastructure (about time). He pointed out there is too many “permitting” actions involved in construction jobs. I agree. As one who has a Master's in Environmental Management, I too think that a full NEPA Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) is too cumbersome often taking three years. But an Environmental Assessment (usually doable in three months) seems appropriate to me. My vote would go to those who find ways to radically streamline such permitting activities, but not eliminate them.

I checked out some factual claims Trump made (for instance that the Golden Gate Bridge was built in 4 years, the Empire State Building in 1 year) - he was correct.

But he went hyperbolic again when speaking about “Trillions and Trillions” dollars the US has spent on foreign giveaways. The truth is there was $42.4B foreign aid in 2017 (Obama budget) - 25.6B on Economic and Development Aid and $16.8B in Security Aid. That is about 1% of our budget. Read and visualize here. Trump's 2018 proposed budget cuts that by 31%. Shown Here, but no details yet about how much is Security/Military aid and how much is Economic and Development Aid. But his deal to give the Saudis $10B in military aid does not portend well for how much of that is humanitarian aid (which would actually help “Make America Great Again”, imo).
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby Jon Estes » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:19 am

KeithE wrote:As far as truthfulness is concerned, Comey has much more credibility than Trump. Period.

Opinion noted but disagreed with. Comey is a weasel who likes himself and wants the spotlight even more than Trump.

Trump yesterday said:

"from what everyone I’ve met with today, I could have stop it” referring to the Flynn investigation. Imo, he is laying the groundwork to do just that - which would be a travesty of justice.

""I will tell you about it over a very short period of time” referring to the “tapes”. Imo, he and his lawyers are reviewing those recordings (no one uses tapes anymore) to see if they will help or hurt him (or perhaps more sinisterly modifying those recordings). He added that the press will be “disappointed” and would not even say if the the “tapes” existed or not. That is a sidestep- which is a form of lying in my book when he obviously could answer that question.

Opinion noted but disagreed with. The conspiracy theorist are out of their cage again, I see, Sinisterly??? Really?

“It was a total and complete lie” referring the Comey’s testimony. I’d call that hyperbole (another form of lying).

Through himself, his lawyer and his son Eric, he said in various ways that he was "totally vindicated" by the Comey testimony. This is another instance showing that he is delusional.

Opinion noted but disagreed with. If there is any delusion happening here it is from those who think Comey's testimony in any way hurt Trump.

He also had a speech on Infrastructure (about time). He pointed out there is too many “permitting” actions involved in construction jobs. I agree. As one who has a Master's in Environmental Management, I too think that a full NEPA Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) is too cumbersome often taking three years. But an Environmental Assessment (usually doable in three months) seems appropriate to me. My vote would go to those who find ways to radically streamline such permitting activities, but not eliminate them.

I checked out some factual claims Trump made (for instance that the Golden Gate Bridge was built in 4 years, the Empire State Building in 1 year) - he was correct.

But he went hyperbolic again when speaking about “Trillions and Trillions” dollars the US has spent on foreign giveaways. The truth is there was $42.4B foreign aid in 2017 (Obama budget) - 25.6B on Economic and Development Aid and $16.8B in Security Aid. That is about 1% of our budget. Read and visualize here. Trump's 2018 proposed budget cuts that by 31%. Shown Here, but no details yet about how much is Security/Military aid and how much is Economic and Development Aid. But his deal to give the Saudis $10B in military aid does not portend well for how much of that is humanitarian aid (which would actually help “Make America Great Again”, imo).

Is your list complete or just enough to keep it below the figure you want to be seen as a lie?

Interesting that you dissect much of Comey's comments but leave the Lynch stuff silent. That revelation was the biggy.
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby Jon Estes » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:32 am

Sandy wrote:Yesterday, Trump, through his attorney, acknowledged that they were glad Comey's testimony came out and that he confirmed the president was not under investigation (at least, not at the time of the firing).

You hate this it seems. You have been telling us Trump was under investigation and has been for a while... AM I right?

Today, a different story, and a different approach. Seems it takes his White House staffers a little while to catch on and plan a strategy. So someone is lying. Who? Well, compare the evidence from the past. Remember what a great guy Comey was when he went to Congress after the FBI report cleared Hillary on the email issue? He was a great, honest guy.

This was true of both sides of the isle. Both GOP and DNC saw Comey as an angel and a demon. It all came down to which statement he made that benefited them. It was never about Comey to them but the statement which could benefit them. Gosh, if Trump said something that benefited them, they would love him for the moment.

So he visits with Trump, takes notes and documents the conversations, accuses him of being a liar several times (well, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it has lied through its teeth hundreds of times even on camera) and so after about 24 hours of planning, Trump decides to call Comey a liar.

Takes notes on a government owned computer... which then makes what he notes property of the US government. Loses his job and then leaks government owned information to the press, through a friend, anonymously.

When Comey said: When the White House "chose to defame me and, more importantly, the FBI by saying that the organization was in disarray, that it was poorly led, that the workforce had lost confidence in its leader." "were lies, plain and simple". I think Trump was correct. This is true because of Comey in the lead chair.

I don't think anyone is going to have a problem figuring out who is lying, and who is not. :wink:

Are you saying Comey did not lie? :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby Joseph Patrick » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:14 am

From Joseph Patrick...aka Gerry Milligan
Yes, what a difference a few months make...In early November FBI director Comey was the darling of republicans and the bane of democrats over the "discovery" of more emails. Hillary incorrectly blamed him for her loss and republicans credited him for helping in her defeat. When, all along Hillary ran a poor campaign while President (then candidate) Trump promised a "pie in the sky" which many out of work people believed. Now Jim Comey is a liar and our do nothing president (excepting a supreme court appointee) is not? Who is the liar? How many people were at the inauguration? How many Muslims celebrated 9/11 in New Jersey? Need I go on?
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby Jon Estes » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:59 am

Joseph Patrick wrote:From Joseph Patrick...aka Gerry Milligan
Yes, what a difference a few months make...In early November FBI director Comey was the darling of republicans and the bane of democrats over the "discovery" of more emails. Hillary incorrectly blamed him for her loss and republicans credited him for helping in her defeat. When, all along Hillary ran a poor campaign while President (then candidate) Trump promised a "pie in the sky" which many out of work people believed. Now Jim Comey is a liar and our do nothing president (excepting a supreme court appointee) is not? Who is the liar? How many people were at the inauguration? How many Muslims celebrated 9/11 in New Jersey? Need I go on?


I don't think most people will argue that the lies are there. Many will discard them as exaggerations (which many Baptist Pastors do (good and bad) in telling friends about their churches). Some may say he was given bad info to begin with (which I do not believe). I fall on the side, they all have lied. The GOP or DNC, will use the lies of the others (while avoiding their own) to benefit their cause. Counting who tells the most lies among the many liars and making one of them the bigger villain is ridiculous. Not saying you do this but it is being done on this forum.
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby Dave Roberts » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:46 am

Jon Estes wrote:
I don't think most people will argue that the lies are there. Many will discard them as exaggerations (which many Baptist Pastors do (good and bad) in telling friends about their churches). Some may say he was given bad info to begin with (which I do not believe). I fall on the side, they all have lied. The GOP or DNC, will use the lies of the others (while avoiding their own) to benefit their cause. Counting who tells the most lies among the many liars and making one of them the bigger villain is ridiculous. Not saying you do this but it is being done on this forum.


Then, Jon, isn't it time for a housecleaning in Washington to hold people who serve us to a higher standard of truthfulness. It would seem, you are saying, that if everyone does it, then we have no beef. I hope that is a misinterpretation of what you meant, but that is certainly what it sounds like.
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby KeithE » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:55 am

Jon Estes wrote:
Joseph Patrick wrote:From Joseph Patrick...aka Gerry Milligan
Yes, what a difference a few months make...In early November FBI director Comey was the darling of republicans and the bane of democrats over the "discovery" of more emails. Hillary incorrectly blamed him for her loss and republicans credited him for helping in her defeat. When, all along Hillary ran a poor campaign while President (then candidate) Trump promised a "pie in the sky" which many out of work people believed. Now Jim Comey is a liar and our do nothing president (excepting a supreme court appointee) is not? Who is the liar? How many people were at the inauguration? How many Muslims celebrated 9/11 in New Jersey? Need I go on?


I don't think most people will argue that the lies are there. Many will discard them as exaggerations (which many Baptist Pastors do (good and bad) in telling friends about their churches). Some may say he was given bad info to begin with (which I do not believe). I fall on the side, they all have lied. The GOP or DNC, will use the lies of the others (while avoiding their own) to benefit their cause. Counting who tells the most lies among the many liars and making one of them the bigger villain is ridiculous. Not saying you do this but it is being done on this forum.


Critical at this time is - who is more trustworthy, Comey or Trump?
POLL: Americans Trust James Comey Over Trump by a 20% margin.

You are right, counting lies is no longer necessary. It should be obvious that he is a pathological liar and not to be trusted. One would think that after a campaign with 70% of his statements under question were ruled lies and a transition period with 82 documented lies in 71 days, about 1 lie/day, and a first 100 days in office with 492 documented lies, almost 5/day , all would be convinced that he has a major problem with truth. His lies are in fact accelerating. As long as there are any people (any placed on earth) who believe his lies and believe he is trustworthy, these documented lies need to be brought forth in any forum that can be.

Review his past record and test his current statements.
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby KeithE » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:23 am

Dave Roberts wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:
I don't think most people will argue that the lies are there. Many will discard them as exaggerations (which many Baptist Pastors do (good and bad) in telling friends about their churches). Some may say he was given bad info to begin with (which I do not believe). I fall on the side, they all have lied. The GOP or DNC, will use the lies of the others (while avoiding their own) to benefit their cause. Counting who tells the most lies among the many liars and making one of them the bigger villain is ridiculous. Not saying you do this but it is being done on this forum.


Then, Jon, isn't it time for a housecleaning in Washington to hold people who serve us to a higher standard of truthfulness. It would seem, you are saying, that if everyone does it, then we have no beef. I hope that is a misinterpretation of what you meant, but that is certainly what it sounds like.


Amen to that. Hillary had 26% of her checked statements ruled as lies. That is bad enough.

BTW, I went a Town Hall meeting yesterday. Mo Brooks, our Representative and an original Tea Partier, was invited but said he wouldn’t go because as he said "I want things to settle down a little bit before I'm willing to subject citizens to bodily harm or damage to their personal property,”. Yeah right. I learned that Brooks has offered a Tax Code Termination Act (H.R. 27) that would abolish taxes by 2020 while sponsoring a Building the Wall Funding Act (H.R. 1813). Go figure.

All votes on political issues (with red and green cards) broke decidedly against Trump/Brooks. Peter Joffrian was there, said nothing, but he is running against Brooks for his House seat. Of course Brooks is running for Sessions Senator job (Dec 12, 2017 general election) before his nominal re-election (Nov 2108).

The Town Hall was entirely free from violence and property loss. Only one lady spoke up favoring Trump and she was treated nicely. Plenty of information on health care options and a detail of the people involved in RussiaGate (many Russia mafia types- more so than I had realized) and a discussion about political labels/semantics from a local Political Professor. If I get the vugraphs, I will pass them along.
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby Sandy » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:41 pm

Jon Estes wrote:
Sandy wrote:Yesterday, Trump, through his attorney, acknowledged that they were glad Comey's testimony came out and that he confirmed the president was not under investigation (at least, not at the time of the firing).

You hate this it seems. You have been telling us Trump was under investigation and has been for a while... AM I right?

Today, a different story, and a different approach. Seems it takes his White House staffers a little while to catch on and plan a strategy. So someone is lying. Who? Well, compare the evidence from the past. Remember what a great guy Comey was when he went to Congress after the FBI report cleared Hillary on the email issue? He was a great, honest guy.

This was true of both sides of the isle. Both GOP and DNC saw Comey as an angel and a demon. It all came down to which statement he made that benefited them. It was never about Comey to them but the statement which could benefit them. Gosh, if Trump said something that benefited them, they would love him for the moment.

So he visits with Trump, takes notes and documents the conversations, accuses him of being a liar several times (well, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it has lied through its teeth hundreds of times even on camera) and so after about 24 hours of planning, Trump decides to call Comey a liar.

Takes notes on a government owned computer... which then makes what he notes property of the US government. Loses his job and then leaks government owned information to the press, through a friend, anonymously.

When Comey said: When the White House "chose to defame me and, more importantly, the FBI by saying that the organization was in disarray, that it was poorly led, that the workforce had lost confidence in its leader." "were lies, plain and simple". I think Trump was correct. This is true because of Comey in the lead chair.

I don't think anyone is going to have a problem figuring out who is lying, and who is not. :wink:

Are you saying Comey did not lie? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Brother --- You need some fresh air.


I am saying that if there's going to be a comparison between Comey and Trump, and a question of credibility in testimony, Comey wins hands down against a guy who has been a pathological liar, corrupt businessman, cheat, adulterer,and whoremonger virtually all his life, and particularly corrupt in the short time he's been in the White House. Yeah, figured Lynch's name would come up, that's about all the current administration has left, the "na na boo boo Obama did it too" mantra they chant to divert the attention in another direction. Not the first time that there was a political divide between the justice department and the FBI. A good book about the J. Edgar Hoover days would clear that up. Lynch isn't the issue, nor is Hillary Clinton. It is the corrupt liar now in the White House.
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby JE Pettibone » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:08 pm

Ed: Sandy what do you know of Comey before say, October of 2016? Had you even heard of him before then?
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby KeithE » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:38 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Sandy what do you know of Comey before say, October of 2016? Had you even heard of him before then?

I’m not Sandy, but here is info about the famous Ashcroft hospital room encounter that made Comey look good and become the FBI leader. I certainly remember that story and Comey was the hero in my mind. Here is a view of Comey in Oct 2015 that paints him to be a tough-on-crime type and is largely complimentary with support from both sides of the aisle, but some light criticism from Obama and Yates. Those are well before Oct 2016.

Ed, do you have any snippets or recollections about Comey prior to Oct 2016?

Personally I think 2016 was not Comey's best year - as I posted, read here. His judgement was questionable in my and many people’s opinion, but his truthfulness and integrity is intact (more than Trump can say). That is what counts now in reconstructing the Trump-Comey interactions and Mueller’s judgement about potential “obstruction of justice” and “abuse of power” assessments which, btw, were among the articles of impeachment for Nixon (as was making “false and misleading statements”). The truth is that the underlying crime (Russian hacking of DNC emails is far worse than a one-time break-in of safes at the DNC); not saying that Trump was in prior cahoots with the Russian hackers but he encouraged them to leak more (Russia, if you are listening ....).
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby Sandy » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:17 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Sandy what do you know of Comey before say, October of 2016? Had you even heard of him before then?


As a matter of fact, yes, I had heard of him before. He didn't particularly make the news in major fashion, but I do remember when he was appointed. One of my employees has a sibling who is an FBI agent who works in the headquarters building in Washington, and when we take our annual field trip there, she arranges to give us a tour. The building is no longer open to the public, but employees can give tours of the exhibits inside. So we got a little rundown on him when we got our first tour in 2013, just a month or so after he was first appointed.
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Re: What a difference a day makes

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:45 pm

Sandy wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Sandy what do you know of Comey before say, October of 2016? Had you even heard of him before then?


As a matter of fact, yes, I had heard of him before. He didn't particularly make the news in major fashion, but I do remember when he was appointed. One of my employees has a sibling who is an FBI agent who works in the headquarters building in Washington, and when we take our annual field trip there, she arranges to give us a tour. The building is no longer open to the public, but employees can give tours of the exhibits inside. So we got a little rundown on him when we got our first tour in 2013, just a month or so after he was first appointed.


Ed: Sandy again you have not answered my question I asked "what do you know of Comey before say, October of 2016?", not did you know of Comey before Oct of 2016.
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