Abortion one more time

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Abortion one more time

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:43 pm

Please read the article with focus before you comment


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/06 ... ttlefield/
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Re: Abortion one more time

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:03 am

Stephen Fox wrote:Please read the article with focus before you comment


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/06 ... ttlefield/


The article is criminal.

It matters not the quotes given, laws stated, opinions held... Life is not ours to murder.

The total count between 1978 and 2015, writes Haugeberg, was eleven murders (nine of them physicians), twenty-six attempted murders, 185 arsons, forty-two bombings, and 1,534 vandalizations of clinics.


The article makes it sound as if this is a tragedy when they take no concern or care on the 17.3 + million babies murdered... chopped up... killed the sucked out of the womb between 1975 - 1989.

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-unitedstates.html

An article which is criminal, no morals, murder supportive... I have been thinking. If you support the conclusions in the article I feel sorry for you.

I have yet to meet a sane mother who would not jump in front of a bullet to save their child. Who would do everything in their power to keep their child safe from harm. I have met many women who have had abortions and carry the burden of that choice with extreme guilt and shame. Why not just get a tee shirt that says...I am ok with killing children. As Christians and people of moral character, we must rise to stop the killing of the unborn. We must stop playing God.

And yes, I read the sick article.

Lastly, Many males love abortion also as it keeps them from being responsible men. And that is being nice.
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Re: Abortion one more time

Postby Sandy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:49 am

Jon Estes wrote:I have yet to meet a sane mother who would not jump in front of a bullet to save their child. Who would do everything in their power to keep their child safe from harm.


It would depend on your definition of sane. I work in a K-12 school environment, and unfortunately, not all of our kids have parents like that. Maybe sane is the correct word, but it looks to me like its selfishness that causes parents not to care about their kids.

Most parents would do anything to keep their child safe from harm, including put their family into financial ruin and poverty to provide the best medical care available for them when they're sick. St. Jude can't take care of every sick child in the country, so in addition to protecting the life of the unborn, we need to figure out, collectively, as a nation, how to take care of our kids without using their pain and suffering as an economic lever to generate profits for someone else.
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Re: Abortion one more time

Postby Mrs Haruo » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:11 am

And how many men who make big noise about killing of innocent babies would welcome an unwed mother into their home and make sure they were eating healthy food, had comfortable pretty clothes as their bodies changed, good prenatal care, go with them to childbirth preparation classes. Make sure they had clothes for the baby's first year and a crib, car seat and stroller? How many even have any idea how much this stuff costs? Anyone can say "Oh, I am Pro-life" How many truely demonstrate it?
:( :( :( :(


And I am saying MEN because recently in Congress there were committee discussions on women's health issues with no women allowed on the group? What kind of nonsense is that?
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Re: Abortion one more time

Postby Jon Estes » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:10 am

Sandy wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:I have yet to meet a sane mother who would not jump in front of a bullet to save their child. Who would do everything in their power to keep their child safe from harm.


It would depend on your definition of sane. I work in a K-12 school environment, and unfortunately, not all of our kids have parents like that. Maybe sane is the correct word, but it looks to me like its selfishness that causes parents not to care about their kids.

Most parents would do anything to keep their child safe from harm, including put their family into financial ruin and poverty to provide the best medical care available for them when they're sick. St. Jude can't take care of every sick child in the country, so in addition to protecting the life of the unborn, we need to figure out, collectively, as a nation, how to take care of our kids without using their pain and suffering as an economic lever to generate profits for someone else.


I think you have been very clear on your belief that healthcare is a human right. No need to go there because I do not remember (and I am not going to go back and look) you championing the call for the USA to dig deep and cover the cost for all those in the world who cannot afford or their countries cannot afford health care. A human right is global not limited. For your position to become a reality, I think the rich would have to give up most of their money and so would those others like you and me. The need is to great to meet, financially or with personnel willing to sign on.

If you cut the cost of healthcare you will most likely lose the skilled and trained Drs who spend a huge amount of money to be schooled and to insure themselves. The idea of being a Dr (which is often for the wealth it brings) would be removed and the whole system would be negatively affected due to less people doing the work. That will include those in the hospital who are not Drs. Who pays for the upgrade to new technology as it is (for now) when it becomes available? Why not make every business owner ante up an additional 25% (or whatever is necessary) in taxes to cover the required costs? Why not charge companies whose workers do more dangerous jobs more in taxes to cover the additional costs?

But Stephens posting gave you another chance to hope and turn the conversation to something other than that which Stephen started.

I'm done talking about your pet peeve. Enjoy your protest to make others pay for what you want to be covered.
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Re: Abortion one more time

Postby Jon Estes » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:17 am

Mrs Haruo wrote:And how many men who make big noise about killing of innocent babies would welcome an unwed mother into their home and make sure they were eating healthy food, had comfortable pretty clothes as their bodies changed, good prenatal care, go with them to childbirth preparation classes. Make sure they had clothes for the baby's first year and a crib, car seat and stroller? How many even have any idea how much this stuff costs? Anyone can say "Oh, I am Pro-life" How many truely demonstrate it?
:( :( :( :(


And I am saying MEN because recently in Congress there were committee discussions on women's health issues with no women allowed on the group? What kind of nonsense is that?


There is a way to keep men who may not care from being in such a position. Teach the women to say no. Teach the women that most the men who want to sleep with them without the true commitment of a long term relationship are not worth sleeping with. Also, when the laws give the men a voice to say no to an abortion of their child, the law will put some responsibility upon them. For now, men have no legal responsibility on a child the were 1/2 responsible (biologically) responsible for.

Should cost even be in the equation for an abortion? If one thinks so, they have lost perspective on the child conceived is a child.
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Re: Abortion one more time

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:30 pm

Jon Estes wrote:I think you have been very clear on your belief that healthcare is a human right. No need to go there because I do not remember (and I am not going to go back and look) you championing the call for the USA to dig deep and cover the cost for all those in the world who cannot afford or their countries cannot afford health care. A human right is global not limited. For your position to become a reality, I think the rich would have to give up most of their money and so would those others like you and me. The need is to (sic) great to meet, financially or with personnel willing to sign on.


The USA already does cover a pretty good portion of the cost for much of the world when it comes to providing health care. Depending on the country, a significant amount of the foreign aid provided by the United States government goes to the development and expansion of medical facilities, and to training and providing indigenous medical personnel. That doesn't count the volunteer medical missions involving thousands of doctors, nurses, dentists and other professionals who give time and service to serve in underdeveloped countries.

The USA doesn't have to dig deep to cover the cost for all those in the world who cannot afford, or whose countries cannot afford, health care. A lot of European countries have been involved in medical development in the third world for decades, particularly in their former African and Asian colonies. You're right when you say that if health care is a human right, it is global. Of course it is. And our country has an obligation, morally, to help make it accessible. So do other countries blessed with great wealth. That seems to be happening.

Cutting health care costs in the United States would not require subtracting one single dime from the paycheck of any medical professional at any level. With the exception of private practice, salaried medical professionals in most of the European countries and Canada make about the same as they do in the US, with cost of living factored in. Private practice doctors in the US make more, but not significantly, and in Europe and Canada, medical school and insurance is paid by the government. Nurses and Technicians, and other professionals, actually make a little less in the US than most of Europe and Canada. The difference is that in countries with "socialized medicine," there is no profit margin. They provide everything that our system does, at the same or better level of quality, at the same pay rate for their medical professionals, for half of the cost that we pay. Fix that, and you have a substantial amount of financial resource to provide multiple millions of people with health care.

The resistance, especially among those in the "Christian right" and among evangelical conservatives, to asking anything of the rich and prosperous, or to expecting anything from them, is unfathomable.

If you want to be perfect, Jesus said to him, go, sell your belongings and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me. I assure you: It will be hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. Matt 19:21, 23-24, HCSB
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