Pre-Mature Crowing

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Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby KeithE » Fri May 05, 2017 9:40 am

Crowing definition:
say something in a tone of gloating satisfaction.


I found it sardonic (def: skeptically humorous) that Trump staged two major “crowing" events after the House's narrow win on the House AHCA bill yesterday. One was in the "Rose Garden" White House grounds complete with beer ('I never promised you a Rose Garden') and one an aircraft carrier (reminiscent of George W. Bush’s ‘Mission Accomplished').

Bad bill: I’ll save most of the detailed fiscal discussion until after the CBO scoring of this bill (or whatever the Senate comes up with) but this much is known about what the House passed yesterday:

The bill will
- kick 10’s million off the insurance rolls
- cut federal funds to Medicaid by $800B over 10 years,
- put those with pre-existing conditions at risk (dependent on state waivers)
- put a ban of lifetime caps (even those in group insurance) at risk,
while
- providing a tax break of $600B over ten years to those with salaries over $200K/year (richest 6%)
- ending subsidies to the poor and replaced with tax credits weighted towards the older (50-65).

Perverse celebration at the Rose Garden, by rich/older people who have other health insurance.

Trump called the House version of the AHCA "incredibility well-crafted”, “with lower premiums, and deductibles”, “unbelievable victory”.... That is premature on three accounts:
(1) it has not passed the Senate (most say the Senate will “write their own bull”, whoops “bill” - thought I’d leave that typo in)
(2) it has not yet been scored by the CBO
(3) it has not been implemented (which is the only way one can claim lower premiums/deductibles).

When in the presence of the Australian PM, Trump was forced to say “Australia has a great health care program” (which, btw, is a single payer, universal health care system), Trump says anything for his immediate audience.

I also found it premature on the part of the House Dems to sing “Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah; Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah; Hey, Hey, Hey, Goodbye”.

Let’s get serious and get a CBO score (and national discussion) on HR 676 (Medicare for All) as well as House and Senate versions of the AHCA.

And let’s get serious on reducing health care costs (which the ACA/AHCA does nothing for; Medicare has done some cost controls, but not enough). Markets on insurance are not markets on health care (we don’t see comparative costs /value from Doctors/Hospitals/Drugs/Medical Devices when selecting). Reasonable cost controls work in other countries.
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby Haruo » Fri May 05, 2017 10:19 am

I don't think anybody "forced" Trump to praise Australia's health care system. I think he did it of his own loose-cannon-type will. Just like when, a week or so ago, he said "Kim is one smart cookie". He likes to be loved.
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby KeithE » Fri May 05, 2017 10:34 am

Haruo wrote:I don't think anybody "forced" Trump to praise Australia's health care system. I think he did it of his own loose-cannon-type will. Just like when, a week or so ago, he said "Kim is one smart cookie". He likes to be loved.

I didn’t mean to say anyone else “forced” Trump to praise Australia's health care system. I agree he did that with his own “loose-canon”, playing to immediate audience. Some say he was just being “polite”. I’d say “two-faced”. He must begin to realize that what he says goes to everyone.
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby William Thornton » Fri May 05, 2017 10:53 am

I'm looking for an authority on using "sardonic" as a noun. Often an adjective ("sardonic humor") or adverb ("sardonically"). Help me out. Others found the rose garden hoopla: overblown, ironic, premature, etc.
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby KeithE » Fri May 05, 2017 11:01 am

William Thornton wrote:I'm looking for an authority on using "sardonic" as a noun. Often an adjective ("sardonic humor") or adverb ("sardonically"). Help me out. Others found the rose garden hoopla: overblown, ironic, premature, etc.

Hmmm. The word was carefully chosen. I had first used “appropriate”. It was used as an adjective. Sardonically is a adverb.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sardonic
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby William Thornton » Fri May 05, 2017 11:18 am

I like the word, one of my favorites. I just didn't see the noun that the adjective was modifying.

"I found it a sardonic event," or, "the event was a sardonicism."

Maybe engineers get some leeway in grammar and syntax. My guess is that you made a mental bridge between the noun "ironic" and the adjective "sardonic." Nonetheless, I always appreciate good vocabulary. Send me a link, though, for "sardonic" as a noun.

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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby Haruo » Fri May 05, 2017 12:00 pm

William, Keith didn't use "sardonic" as a noun. "I found it sardonic that..." is not the same as saying "I found it a sardonic, that..." And don't argue about the comma.
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby William Thornton » Fri May 05, 2017 12:22 pm

Haruo wrote:William, Keith didn't use "sardonic" as a noun. "I found it sardonic that..." is not the same as saying "I found it a sardonic, that..." And don't argue about the comma.


So what is it in that position? I'm hard pressed to find similar examples. You, Haruo, have a lot of grammar cred with me, bro.
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby Haruo » Fri May 05, 2017 1:30 pm

It's indirect. The noun it modifies is the one represented here pronominally by "it".
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby Haruo » Fri May 05, 2017 1:31 pm

When I first saw my new house, I found it dilapidated. No one would say that this is an attempt to use "dilapidated" as a noun. So why pick on Keith's "sardonic"?
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby William Thornton » Fri May 05, 2017 1:50 pm

Haruo wrote:When I first saw my new house, I found it dilapidated. No one would say that this is an attempt to use "dilapidated" as a noun. So why pick on Keith's "sardonic"?


Adverb, then?

Pity the poor "sardonic"... unknown to most, misunderstood by many, even picked on by some. Even when used mislabeled. Probably has a recognized syndrome paid for under Obamacare. Taxpayers, grab your wallets.
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby Haruo » Fri May 05, 2017 1:55 pm

In Esperanto I would probably use an adverb there, but I'm disinclined to call it one in English, just on formal grounds. The adverb should have its telltale -(al)ly suffix. But if you say "I found it sardonically, that..." then not only are you sounding weird(ly), but you're modifying "found" instead of "it".
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby Jim » Fri May 05, 2017 3:23 pm

Haruo wrote:When I first saw my new house, I found it dilapidated. No one would say that this is an attempt to use "dilapidated" as a noun. So why pick on Keith's "sardonic"?

Did you find the house to be dilapidated or did you find it whilst you were dilapidated? Should there be possible consideration about the evil and overused comma? Not being sardonic or even sarcastic...just curious!
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby KeithE » Fri May 05, 2017 3:29 pm

Keith said:
I found it sardonic (def: skeptically humorous) that Trump staged two major “crowing" events after the House's narrow win on the House AHCA bill yesterday. One was in the "Rose Garden" White House grounds complete with beer ('I never promised you a Rose Garden') and one an aircraft carrier (reminiscent of George W. Bush’s ‘Mission Accomplished’).


Haruo wrote:In Esperanto I would probably use an adverb there, but I'm disinclined to call it one in English, just on formal grounds. The adverb should have its telltale -(al)ly suffix. But if you say "I found it sardonically, that..." then not only are you sounding weird(ly), but you're modifying "found" instead of "it".


I was modifying “it” (the staged events) when using “sardonic”. Thus its intentions was as a adjective.

Irregardless (or is it regardless?) of the English used by this engineer, what do ya’ll think about the pre-mature “crowing”? I found the settings amusing. Trump has promised us a Rose Garden repeatably in his campaign and in his reign, and Bush was famously wrong about “mission accomplished” in Iraq on an aircraft carrier.
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Re: Pre-Mature Crowing

Postby KeithE » Fri May 05, 2017 3:39 pm

William Thornton wrote:I like the word, one of my favorites. I just didn't see the noun that the adjective was modifying.

"I found it a sardonic event," or, "the event was a sardonicism."

Maybe engineers get some leeway in grammar and syntax. My guess is that you made a mental bridge between the noun "ironic" and the adjective "sardonic." Nonetheless, I always appreciate good vocabulary. Send me a link, though, for "sardonic" as a noun.

The conservative commentator Krauthammer is saying that Obamacare is a big winner because the conversation has shifted. He predicts single payer in seven years.


I sent you the Merriam-Webster dictionary link I used in choosing that word. It was used as an adjective not a noun referring to “it” which is identified as the two staged events. It is true I thought of “ironic” (another adjective not a noun) but that didn’t catch my amusement. Perhaps I should have said: I was "amused” to hear of the two Trump staged events .....

Sure hope Krauthammer is right before 7 years.

If you are worried about the loss of employment by the health insurance industry, they can be employed as “accountability agents” in government or industry - we need more and it is a skills match. Many people have to change their specialties during a career. I started in analog electronics, switched to optical/infrared systems, added threat assessments, added some physics (radiation, thermal analysis,and dynamics), then algorithms development and test, then environmental management, then flight test planning, then rocket science, and then returned to update algorithm testing.
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