Climate Change Terrorism

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Climate Change Terrorism

Postby David Flick » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:33 pm

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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Sandy » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:05 pm

Interesting. No witnesses. In a state where getting hold of a gun is as easy as buying candy. But you're pretty sure it was a climate change alarmist. I don't know, might have been a Syrian refugee, given the odds. Maybe it was a disgruntled North Korean. Or maybe one of the center's employees gone postal. Or, perhaps, it was a shooting prompted by the fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention. Perhaps the shooter belonged to Paul Pressler's Texas Regulars and made a phone call to Trey Gowdy's church secretary at First Baptist Church of Spartanburg, SC.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby David Flick » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:08 pm

Sandy wrote:Interesting. No witnesses. In a state where getting hold of a gun is as easy as buying candy. But you're pretty sure it was a climate change alarmist. I don't know, might have been a Syrian refugee, given the odds. Maybe it was a disgruntled North Korean. Or maybe one of the center's employees gone postal. Or, perhaps, it was a shooting prompted by the fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention. Perhaps the shooter belonged to Paul Pressler's Texas Regulars and made a phone call to Trey Gowdy's church secretary at First Baptist Church of Spartanburg, SC.

    Brilliant reply, Sandy. You should get a Golden Spur. Gotta defend those alarmists whatever way you can, even if you throw the attention toward Syrian refugees, disgruntled North Koreans, or Pressler's Texas Regulars. Par for the course by one sympathetic to climate change alarmism. :roll:
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Jim » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:10 pm

The idiotic “97% consensus” remains the holy grail of the alarmists, notwithstanding the fraud connected to it when in 2009 a handful of the “weather devout” without even enough common sense or technical cognizance to realize that smart middle-schoolers can ferret out condemning emails exposed their crooked cooking of the books (UN-sponsored, of course) in order to codify what has been the silliest hoax of the century thus far. The idea that mere man can stay/manipulate the natural forces endemic to what God created is so arrogant as to be totally beyond belief. Man hasn’t even discovered how to create a blade of grass, much less control the climate controlling its growth.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby David Flick » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:09 pm

.
.
UPDATE: University of Alabama Hhntsville Police have identified the shooting as a “random shooting.”

Do I believe the it was a "random shooting." NO.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby David Flick » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:04 am

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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby David Flick » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:20 am

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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Sandy » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:58 am

Someone fires a couple of shots at a window on the campus of UAH, and denialists label it "climate change terrorism," clinging to those bullet holes as if they were the only shred of evidence and credibility of their perspective. :lol: Well, when your argument doesn't hold water, you grasp at whatever straw you can find.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby KeithE » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:17 am

I guess I missed this on local news and Dr. Spencer’s Blogpost and the ever amplifying BartBreit story which led to David’s blogpost (above).

Have not reached the same conclusion (as Spencer, BreitBart, and Flick) that these shots was the work of a disgruntled earth defender. But that could very well be right.

The March for Science in Huntsville was at the US Space and Rocket Center area on Saturday about 1 mile away from the locations of the shots. The March may very well have gone by the National Science Space and Technology Center (NSSTC) (on the corner of Sparkman Drive and Bradford Drive), I do not know.

The building in question was originally built for Teledyne Brown Engineering (“Building 7") circa 1990 who leased it as office space. I worked at TBE from 1979-1999 and often visited that building but sat in adjacent buildings ("Building 1” or "Building 6”). Since about 2000 the NSSTC building has been leased by a UAH/NASA consortium and houses several UAH/NASA entities - the Earth System Science Center (ESSC) being one. Dr. John Christy is the head of the ESSC and Dr. Roy Spencer works there. There is a cute (tornado shaped) building (Called SWIRRL- Severe Weather Institute Radar and Lightning Laboratories) behind Building 7 which houses several of the ESSC personnel. Quite a scientific center (most not nearly as controversial as Christy or Spencer).

If I hear any other news, I’ll let BaptistLife know. Right now (Monday morning) the local news outlets have nothing beyond the 2:57pm Apr 24 WHNT article David posted above.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:35 am


Ed: I like this Reply

" I was a Cub Scout during the first Earth Day. We had a bunch of pine seedlings that we planted on a highway embankment. I went back five years later, and they were all gone. Turns out planting trees on a highway embankment is a terrible idea, so they cut them all down a year after we planted them.



One of the guys quoted above was a professor of mine when I studied environmental science in the late 70s – and is one of the big reasons I got out of environmental science in the late 70s. Everything was apocalyptic, and none of it was coming true. Even as an undergrad, I could see how they were bending the science to get the 'right' results.''
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby KeithE » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:47 am

Sandy wrote:Someone fires a couple of shots at a window on the campus of UAH, and denialists label it "climate change terrorism," clinging to those bullet holes as if they were the only shred of evidence and credibility of their perspective. :lol: Well, when your argument doesn't hold water, you grasp at whatever straw you can find.


This could very well be warning shots from a climate change “realist". I have no reason to doubt it was fired at/near John Christy’s office. If this be a “terrorist” tactic, it is a very mild form of it since it was not a serious attempt to kill John Christy or Roy Spencer.

It could also be a “fake episode” executed by right wing “climate skeptics” to cast “climate alarmists" (as they term us) in a bad light. Right wing gun-toting loonies far outnumber left wing gun-toting loonies.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:56 am

KeithE wrote:
Sandy wrote:Someone fires a couple of shots at a window on the campus of UAH, and denialists label it "climate change terrorism," clinging to those bullet holes as if they were the only shred of evidence and credibility of their perspective. :lol: Well, when your argument doesn't hold water, you grasp at whatever straw you can find.


This could very well be warning shots from a climate change “realist". I have no reason to doubt it was fired at/near John Christy’s office. If this be a “terrorist” tactic, it is a very mild form of it since it was not a serious attempt to kill John Christy or Roy Spencer.

It could also be a “fake episode” executed by right wing “climate skeptics” to cast “climate alarmists" (as they term us) in a bad light. Right wing gun-toting loonies far outnumber left wing gun-toting loonies.


ED: And where is the DATA to support that last assertion ?
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:04 pm

KeithE wrote:
Sandy wrote:Someone fires a couple of shots at a window on the campus of UAH, and denialists label it "climate change terrorism," clinging to those bullet holes as if they were the only shred of evidence and credibility of their perspective. :lol: Well, when your argument doesn't hold water, you grasp at whatever straw you can find.


This could very well be warning shots from a climate change “realist". I have no reason to doubt it was fired at/near John Christy’s office. If this be a “terrorist” tactic, it is a very mild form of it since it was not a serious attempt to kill John Christy or Roy Spencer.

It could also be a “fake episode” executed by right wing “climate skeptics” to cast “climate alarmists" (as they term us) in a bad light. Right wing gun-toting loonies far outnumber left wing gun-toting loonies.


ED: And where is the DATA to support that last assertion ? If I had any stake in the school, I would be very concerned about the caviler, we have determined these where random shots -case closed responce. Random shots often kill.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby KeithE » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:36 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:
KeithE wrote:
Sandy wrote:Someone fires a couple of shots at a window on the campus of UAH, and denialists label it "climate change terrorism," clinging to those bullet holes as if they were the only shred of evidence and credibility of their perspective. :lol: Well, when your argument doesn't hold water, you grasp at whatever straw you can find.


This could very well be warning shots from a climate change “realist". I have no reason to doubt it was fired at/near John Christy’s office. If this be a “terrorist” tactic, it is a very mild form of it since it was not a serious attempt to kill John Christy or Roy Spencer.

It could also be a “fake episode” executed by right wing “climate skeptics” to cast “climate alarmists" (as they term us) in a bad light. Right wing gun-toting loonies far outnumber left wing gun-toting loonies.


ED: And where is the DATA to support that last assertion ? If I had any stake in the school, I would be very concerned about the caviler, we have determined these where random shots -case closed responce. Random shots often kill.


Here is a summary of RW terrorism in the US:

United States[edit]

Pre-2001[edit]
According to George Michael, "right-wing terrorism and violence has a long history in America".[26] Right-wing violent incidents began to outnumber Marxist incidents in the United States during the 1980s and 1990s.[27]:29 Michael observes the waning of left-wing terrorism accompanying the rise of right-wing terrorism, with a noticeable "convergence" of the goals of militant Islam with those of the extreme right. Islamic studies scholar Youssef M. Choueiri classified Islamic fundamentalist movements involving revivalism, reformism, and radicalism as within the scope of "right-wing politics".[28]:9

During the 1980s, more than 75 right-wing extremists were prosecuted in the United States for acts of terrorism, carrying out six attacks.[29] In 1983, Gordon Kahl, a Posse Comitatus activist, killed two federal marshals and was later killed by police. Also that year, the white nationalist revolutionary group The Order (also known as the Brüder Schweigen or Silent Brotherhood) robbed banks and armored cars, as well as a sex shop;[30] bombed a theater and a synagogue; and murdered radio talk show host Alan Berg.[31][32]

The April 19, 1995 attack on the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols killed 168 people and was the deadliest act of domestic terrorism in the history of the United States.[33] McVeigh stated that it was retaliation for the government's actions at Ruby Ridge and Waco.[34] McVeigh attended Michigan Militia gun shows.[35][36]

Eric Rudolph executed a series of terrorist attacks between 1996 and 1998. He carried out 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing—which claimed two lives and injured 111—aiming to cancel the games, claiming they promoted global socialism.[37] Rudolph confessed to bombing an abortion clinic in Sandy Springs, an Atlanta suburb, on January 16, 1997; the Otherside Lounge, an Atlanta lesbian bar, on February 21, 1997, injuring five; and an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama on January 29, 1998, killing Birmingham police officer and part-time clinic security guard Robert Sanderson, and critically injuring nurse Emily Lyons.

Post-2001[edit]
As of June 2015, right-wing attacks since the September 11 attacks (9/11) had claimed more lives (48) than attacks committed by jihadists (26).[38] Thereafter, jihadist terrorist attacks (the 2015 San Bernardino attack and the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting) raised the Islamic extremist death toll above that caused by right-wing extremists. As of July 2016, the New America Foundation placed the number killed in terrorist attacks in the U.S. (since 9/11) as follows: 94 killed in jihadist terrorist attacks, 50 killed in far-right attacks, and 5 killed in far-left attacks.[39]

New America's tally shows 18 instances of right-wing terrorist attacks causing fatalities since September 11, 2001. These were the 2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting (3 killed), the 2015 Charleston church shooting (9 killed), the 2014 ambush attack on Las Vegas police officers (5 killed), the 2014 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting in Kansas (3 killed), the 2014 Pennsylvania State Police barracks attack in Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania (1 killed), a 2012 tri-state killing spree by white supremacists, David Pedersen and Holly Grigsby (4 killed), a 2012 ambush of St. John the Baptist Parish, Louisiana police (2 killed), the 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting (6 killed), the 2011 FEAR group attacks (3 killed); a murder in 2010 in Carlisle, Pennsylvania (1 killed), a 2010 suicide attack by airplane in Austin, Texas (1 killed), the 2009 shooting of Pittsburgh police officers (3 killed); the 2009 United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting (1 killed), the 2009 assassination of George Tiller (1 killed), the 2009 murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores in Pima County, Arizona (2 killed), the 2009 murders in Brockton, Massachusetts (2 killed), the 2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting (2 killed), and the 2004 bank robbery in Tulsa, Oklahoma.[39]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#United_States

Of the 94 jihadists terrorism deaths, most are Islamist Fundamentalists (i.e. right-wing) and most were born in the US.

And the corresponding list of left wing terrorism in the US.

United States[edit]
Modern left-wing terrorist groups in the United States developed from remnants of the Weather Underground and extremist elements of the Students for a Democratic Society. Between 1973 and 1975, the Symbionese Liberation Army was active, committing bank robberies, two murders, and other acts of violence. Most notably, the group kidnapped heiress Patty Hearst.[10] During the 1980s, both the May 19th Communist Organization (M19CO) and the smaller United Freedom Front were active. After 1985, following the dismantling of both groups, there were no confirmed acts of left-wing terrorism by similar groups.[11]

Incidents of left-wing terrorism dropped off at the end of the Cold War, partly due to the loss of support for communism.[12].

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_terrorism#United_States

There is the DATA Ed.

Where is your data (or any information) that the police is taking these shots holes in a “cavalier" fashion.
Update from me. I see Ed where you got the idea that the UAH police have a cavalier attitude about this incident. They said that “no further investigation” is planned in the WHNT article. So I see what you mean Ed.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Sandy » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:52 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:
KeithE wrote:
Sandy wrote:Someone fires a couple of shots at a window on the campus of UAH, and denialists label it "climate change terrorism," clinging to those bullet holes as if they were the only shred of evidence and credibility of their perspective. :lol: Well, when your argument doesn't hold water, you grasp at whatever straw you can find.


This could very well be warning shots from a climate change “realist". I have no reason to doubt it was fired at/near John Christy’s office. If this be a “terrorist” tactic, it is a very mild form of it since it was not a serious attempt to kill John Christy or Roy Spencer.

It could also be a “fake episode” executed by right wing “climate skeptics” to cast “climate alarmists" (as they term us) in a bad light. Right wing gun-toting loonies far outnumber left wing gun-toting loonies.


ED: And where is the DATA to support that last assertion ? If I had any stake in the school, I would be very concerned about the caviler, we have determined these where random shots -case closed responce. Random shots often kill.


There isn't any data to support the original assertion that this is "climate change terrorism," either.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Haruo » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:42 am

I haven't seen anything to link these gunshots to anything related to the climate, changing or not, alarming or not. For all I know the shooter was one of Obama's daughters, and she did it to see whether her new gun worked.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby KeithE » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:27 am

Haruo wrote:I haven't seen anything to link these gunshots to anything related to the climate, changing or not, alarming or not. For all I know the shooter was one of Obama's daughters, and she did it to see whether her new gun worked.

Y'all know me well enough to know I disagree heartily with climate denialists ( or whatever they want to be called). I'm also well aware of great vitriol on all sides of this issue.

A Huntsville Times article this morning says one shot landed in a window in the office next to Christy’s. It also said the march did not go by the NSSTC building (as Spencer has said) but started further south on Sparkman. It also said some of the shots struck the third floor (not only the fourth floor as Spencer had offered). Can't find that article by Lee Roop online yet.

Given that the gun shots strunk near John Christy's office, on a weekend of an Earth Day march in the area, I think there is a better than 50-50 chance that these gunshots were taken by a climate activist with knowledge of where Christy/Spencer worked - be it some lefty (protesting Christy's or Spencer’s work) or some righty (creating a fake news story for BreitBart or WUWT). It could also be late night gun fun but I give that less chance. I do not fault Christy/Spencer for bringing up the possibility of a politically-motivated warning shot.

Nor do I fault Sandy or Haruo for suspecting no political motive. But I think otherwise.

I happened to drive by there yesterday and saw no police tape indicating a crime scene. There are lots oaf trees in the way of a shooter but some of the building Neither could I spot any bullet holes from the road. I hope the Huntsville police (not the UAH police force - nod to our BriarWorld discussion) are looking into this more.

But the bullet holes are real - see pictures in this article. Here is one of them with Christy in the foreground/reflection and the main UAH Campus in the background.

Image
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Sandy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:49 pm

It's hard to comment and not see this thread as amusing. The fact that a bullet hole in the window of a relatively obscure building in Alabama can somehow be turned into "climate change terrorism" is laughable, not to mention the fact that the shooter hasn't been identified so motives aren't known. Even if the shooter and his or her motives were known, it's hard to call this "terrorism," and even if it were, it has no bearing on the debate itself. It's diversion, what you do when the facts don't support your argument, so you divert attention to something else.

I don't see anything that rises to the level of terrorism coming from those who believe climate change is real. Sure, there's a lot of frustration, given the volume of money that flows from the corporate world and pays for the phony "science" with the sole aim of exploitation of the environment to make money, and avoid having to spend it on keeping things clean. But "climate change terrorism?" :lol:

I'm still pretty sure that Paul Pressler, the Texas Regulars, Molly Worthen, Trey Gowdy, First Baptist Church of Spartanburg, SC and the fundamentalist takeover of the SBC led to the bullet hole in the window. It's at least a more plausible explanation, worthy of a golden spur.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby KeithE » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:13 pm

Sandy wrote:It's hard to comment and not see this thread as amusing. The fact that a bullet hole in the window of a relatively obscure building in Alabama can somehow be turned into "climate change terrorism" is laughable, not to mention the fact that the shooter hasn't been identified so motives aren't known.


You are sounding like Jeff Sessions - that “little island in the Pacific” vs “obscure building in Alabama”.

A lot of good research goes on on that building (Christy’s/Spencer’s interpretation of their satellite-based DATA not withstanding).

Sandy wrote:Even if the shooter and his or her motives were known, it's hard to call this "terrorism," and even if it were, it has no bearing on the debate itself. It's diversion, what you do when the facts don't support your argument, so you divert attention to something else.

I don't see anything that rises to the level of terrorism coming from those who believe climate change is real. Sure, there's a lot of frustration, given the volume of money that flows from the corporate world and pays for the phony "science" with the sole aim of exploitation of the environment to make money, and avoid having to spend it on keeping things clean. But "climate change terrorism?" :lol:


I totally agree. It would be a ROTFLOL, if it weren't so sad that it resulted in the most inept, corrupt, dishonest, arrogant, and aristocratic President in history.

Terrorism has to be the most demagogued word in politics.

I betcha there is not one person who has been terrorized into not coming to work in that building. Even where terrorism is more rampant (like Europe) people are not effectively cowered to stay home. The politicians who demagogue this and media that reports on these acts are the ones enabling what little terrorism there is.

Again look at the chart below.

Image

The politicians and media should be focussed on the factors on the top of this first column, not the pink highlighted terrorism-related factors in the second column.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Jim » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:03 pm

KeithE wrote:

I totally agree. It would be a ROTFLOL,if it weren't so sad that it resulted in the most inept, corrupt, dishonest, arrogant, and aristocratic President in history.




Speaking like that about Obama seems a bit much but to each his own!
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby KeithE » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:32 pm

Jim wrote:
KeithE wrote:

I totally agree. It would be a ROTFLOL,if it weren't so sad that it resulted in the most inept, corrupt, dishonest, arrogant, and aristocratic President in history.




Speaking like that about Obama seems a bit much but to each his own!

But chillingly accurate applied to Trump.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Sandy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:46 pm

Jim wrote:
KeithE wrote:

I totally agree. It would be a ROTFLOL,if it weren't so sad that it resulted in the most inept, corrupt, dishonest, arrogant, and aristocratic President in history.




Speaking like that about Obama seems a bit much but to each his own!


It would be a bit much, and not true, so I'm glad that it applies to Trump.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Jim » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:22 am

inept, corrupt, dishonest, arrogant, and aristocratic President in history.

How many ways to explain Obama? Inept—Libya, days not weeks but the slaughter lasted 7 months; corrupt—billions to fiend’s solar-panel company that went belly-up; dishonest—telling their mourners that poor souls in Benghazi killed by “protesters” responding to movie about Mohammad they never saw; arrogant—“police act stupidly;” aristocratic—three AF planes to NYC for he and Michelle to have a night on the town.

Think of Inspector Clouseau (Pink Panther) and you get Obama, the bumbler.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Jim » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:10 am

Credit Nye-the-science-guy, currently saving the world, for the latest wrinkle in climate-change terrorism, namely, having too many children, especially in developed countries. One of his colleagues (Netflix) mentioned that better-off kids use 160 times more of the world’s resources (causing global warming) than a worse-off kid somewhere, probably in Africa. So, Nye asks, “Should parents be penalized for having ‘extra’ children,” though apparently no one knows what an extra child is except perhaps the Chinese, who, nevertheless, have just discovered the error of their ways and now approve of, actually promote, the act of having more girls or at least more babies, with a plurality of females. This brings up the whole nasty matter of eugenics, a popular worldwide concern in the first half of last century. Indeed, thousands of American citizens were sterilized in some states in which this was according to laws designed to “weed out” not Hillary’s deplorables but society’s inferiors…physically, mentally, etc. This was great stuff during the democrat Woodrow Wilson’s administrations but the movement lasted through the 30s-40s, when Hitler’s take on the subject was developed into action affecting millions. There were even three international congresses on the subject, with the hands of the U.S. as bloody as others, though not on the same scale. The suggestion, of course, is designed to wipe out the evil white race (those rich devils) in favor of ballooning other races, many if not most of which can’t even feed themselves. The tragedy is that the “progressives” (the Wilson/Obama/Hillary crowd) actually believe this garbage, though have enough sense to keep quiet.
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Re: Climate Change Terrorism

Postby Haruo » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:20 pm

Jim wrote:The suggestion, of course, is designed to wipe out the evil white race

Of course.
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