Health Care Options

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Re: Health Care Options

Postby David Flick » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:46 am

Sandy wrote:
Timothy Bonney wrote:I don't believe in predestination. So I believe the people that voted chose Trump and not God.


I agree with that completely. Just because something happens doesn't mean it's God's will. 1People have a free will, and they can choose not to follow God's will. 2And I don't believe that every political leader is where they are because that's what God wanted. 3I think good, solid Biblical theology teaches that God doesn't manipulate and control humanity like robots, 4and that he doesn't intervene to change things to the way he wants them. 5I think he lets us make choices, and then live with the consequences.

    1) Do you believe it was God's will that people should have chosen Hillary to be elected POTUS?
    2) Do you believe that God, in reality, wanted Hillary instead of Trump to be elected POTUS?
    3) True
    4) If God doesn't intervene to change things to the way he wants them, tell us what exactly he did want.
    5) Who is the "us" in the phrase, "he lets us make choices"? Are you including yourself among the "us"? Quite frankly, I'd much rather live with the consequences of Trump as POTUS than live with consequences under crooked lying Hillary as POTUS. Speaking for myself, I'll take a "buffoon" (as you like to describe Trump) over a known crooked liar seven days a week...


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Re: Health Care Options

Postby Sandy » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:06 am

1. We do not live in Old Testament times, nor in a theocracy connected to God with a covenant. I believe God's will is represented by the transformation of individual lives by grace through faith in Christ. I believe God permits humanity to exercise the free will he gave that is inherently a part of creation. While we take them seriously, elections in America are but a small part of human history. Elections are the result of the exercise of human free will, not manipulated by God, so the election of Hillary would have been no more, or less, the will of God than the election of the buffoon.
2. See #1. No.
4. I hear a lot of talk about "America getting right with God." But the idea of some kind of collective, national repentance doesn't fit with the gospel, which is a message of individual repentance. It is God's will that "all come to repentance, and that none should perish." He's done that through Jesus, not through negotiating covenants with nations. A correct statement would be a desire to see "more Americans get right with God."
5. "Us" would be humanity, collectively, or individually.

Long before this election, Trump had proven himself to be far more corrupt, dishonest, immoral, and a pathological liar than Hillary Clinton. I think we're about to see much worse than what he's exhibited so far. I just hope he doesn't do permanent damage to the country.
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Re: Health Care Options

Postby KeithE » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:30 am

David Flick wrote:
Sandy wrote:
Timothy Bonney wrote:I don't believe in predestination. So I believe the people that voted chose Trump and not God.


I agree with that completely. Just because something happens doesn't mean it's God's will. 1People have a free will, and they can choose not to follow God's will. 2And I don't believe that every political leader is where they are because that's what God wanted. 3I think good, solid Biblical theology teaches that God doesn't manipulate and control humanity like robots, 4and that he doesn't intervene to change things to the way he wants them. 5I think he lets us make choices, and then live with the consequences.

    1) Do you believe it was God's will that people should have chosen Hillary to be elected POTUS?


    I'll take a "buffoon" (as you like to describe Trump) over a known crooked liar seven days a week...




God would have been pleased with Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein more than Clinton and far more than Trump. Sanders and Stein have a heart for the poor, sick and marginalized. Clinton at times has shown such a heart (e.g, Clinton Foundation), but her militarism and corporate ties are undeniable.

"Crooked liar” fits Trump.
Crooked even Mafia connections.
Trump Lies and that is only post election.

I'm afraid too many people hated Hillary so much to even consider the character of Trump. As Sandy has said, we have to "live with the consequences” while working/hoping for impeachment.
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Re: Health Care Options

Postby KeithE » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:14 pm

KeithE wrote:72 Co-sponspors for Medicare for All (aka HR 676) yet no mention of this option on any media I've heard. The winners would be all Americans while the losers would be the Heath Insurance and Pharmaceutics industries. This is indicative of the hold these industries have on the media. - they get much advertisement money from these industries (think of all the drugs we see advertised).

Are we a nation of/by/for the people or of/by/for the corporations?


Now there are 90 co-sponsors.

HR 676 now has 90 co-sponsors but no Republicans and little (if any) mention in the mainstream/cable media.

However, the conservative NY Post published an article by the conservative F.H. Buckley promoting a universal single-payer plan (with a optional Cadillac plans over and above the universal plan).
Here is that article.
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Re: Health Care Options

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:09 pm

Sandy wrote:I agree with that completely. Just because something happens doesn't mean it's God's will. People have a free will, and they can choose not to follow God's will. And I don't believe that every political leader is where they are because that's what God wanted. I think good, solid Biblical theology teaches that God doesn't manipulate and control humanity like robots, and that he doesn't intervene to change things to the way he wants them. I think he lets us make choices, and then live with the consequences.


You'd make a good Methodist Sandy. :wink: At least on the free will question.
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Re: Health Care Options

Postby Sandy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:37 pm

:)

Actually, I did give that some thought. There's a Methodist church about 6 miles away, a country church on the outer edge of a larger town where I've spoken on a couple of occasions on behalf of the school, and really enjoyed the worship and the fellowship. It seems every time I've been invited, they've had a dinner after church. Of course, it helps that several school families attend there, but its a friendly group, the preaching is excellent, and it is always a good experience. Had I not become comfortable with the Quakers, it would have been a consideration.
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Re: Health Care Options

Postby KeithE » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:30 pm

'Now Is the Time': Nationwide Medicare for All Rallies to Take Place April 8.

Here are the cities:

Locations and times detailed here

Berkeley, CA
Orange County, CA
Los Angeles, CA
Idyllwild, CA
Riverside, CA
West Covina, CA
Boulder, CO
Denver, CO
Washington, DC
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Jacksonville, FL
Naples, FL
St. Petersburg, FL
Tampa, FL
The Villages, FL (Central FL)
West Palm Beach, FL
Atlanta, GA
Honolulu, HI
Elgin, IL
Louisville, KY
Frederick, MD
Boston, MA
Pittsfield, MA
Minneapolis, MN
St. Louis, MO
Kansas City, MO
Las Vegas, NV
Concord, NH
Albuquerque, NM
New York, NY
Charlotte, NC
Greensboro, NC
Cleveland, OH
Dayton, OH
Toledo, OH
Roseburg, OR
Corvallis, OR
Philadelphia, PA
Memphis, TN
Austin, TX
Virginia Beach, VA
Seattle, WA
Fond du Lac, WI

How about it, Haruo in Seattle? and Dave in Virginia Beach? and William in Atlanta??, ET in Memphis???
I have plans to go to a Mosque Open House Saturday, else I'd go to Atlanta.
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Re: Health Care Options

Postby Haruo » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:32 am

I'll be singing on Bainbridge Island, the inaugural event of a new all-day singing there, till 4 so by the time I'm back in town, it will be winding down if not over. Also, I have doubts about the safety/ethics of holding a mass rally in a functioning ER. So I would likely stay away even if I were in town.
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Re: Health Care Options

Postby JE Pettibone » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:52 am

Haruo wrote:I'll be singing on Bainbridge Island, the inaugural event of a new all-day singing there, till 4 so by the time I'm back in town, it will be winding down if not over. Also, I have doubts about the safety/ethics of holding a mass rally in a functioning ER. So I would likely stay away even if I were in town.


Ed: "a functioning ER" ?
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Re: Health Care Options

Postby Haruo » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:02 pm

According to the list of locations and other details Keith posted, the Seattle rally is going to take place at the University Hospital Emergency Department. I would hate to be part of a political protest that actually killed a person who might have been saved if we had not physically blocked her access to needed medical care.

Here
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