Pathological Liar

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Pathological Liar

Postby KeithE » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:50 am

The Washington Post is keeping a list of Trump's misleading statements or outright lies since his inauguration.

As of Feb 21, Donald Trump’s streak of falsehoods stands at 33 days. You can follow this streak and read specifics at 100 days of Trump claims. He managed not to tell a falsehood on March 1 (the only day has has not done so). That was the day he was supposedly basking in the glory of his SOTU speech. But in that speech he had more than 20 lies (read about them in the last link above).

All politicians (and people) have lied (except Jimmy Carter of course :wink: ), but Trump deserves the title “Pathological Liar” - he can't help himself (witness his tweets on Saturday morning).

Yes the Washington Post is on a “witch hunt”. But that's their job. Reading the specifics, I'd say they are fair and usually (not always) fact-based.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Jim » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:50 am

KeithE wrote:The Washington Post is keeping a list of Trump's misleading statements or outright lies since his inauguration.

As of Feb 21, Donald Trump’s streak of falsehoods stands at 33 days. You can follow this streak and read specifics at 100 days of Trump claims. He managed not to tell a falsehood on March 1 (the only day has has not done so). That was the day he was supposedly basking in the glory of his SOTU speech. But in that speech he had more than 20 lies (read about them in the last link above).

All politicians (and people) have lied (except Jimmy Carter of course :wink: ), but Trump deserves the title “Pathological Liar” - he can't help himself (witness his tweets on Saturday morning).

Yes the Washington Post is on a “witch hunt”. But that's their job. Reading the specifics, I'd say they are fair and usually (not always) fact-based.

The Washington Post has about as much credibility as CNN, which “fixed” its own debate by feeding Hillary the questions in advance. As for pathological liars, no one can match a solemn Obama telling the families of the Benghazi dead that they were killed by a bunch of “protestors” who were adversely affected by a movie they hadn't seen or that ACA meant that everyone could keep his own doctor. According to the National Transition Council as quoted in the respected Guardian of 26 October 2011, Obama's little personal war cost 30,000 dead Libyans (mostly the innocent) and another 50,000 wounded. Others say anywhere between 30,000 and 100,000 dead. This is his legacy as the greatest commander-in-chief of all time, who also lied in saying the little dust-up that razed Libya would be over in days, not weeks but lasted seven months of blood in the streets. You should have named this thread "Liar-in-Chief...Obama."
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:20 am

Jim, I'm fascinated by the fixation on Benghazi and 4 deaths while Reagan got a pass on 242 dead in Beirut where the guards were not even issued live ammunition per the POTUS order.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby William Thornton » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:36 am

Pathological liars? We talking about the Clintons?
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:57 am

William Thornton wrote:Pathological liars? We talking about the Clintons?


Good deflection, William! Don't deal with the present--look at the past. Many of us who do not support Trump were hardly fans of the Clintons.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Sandy » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:13 am

Deflect is all that Trump or his administration can do, apparently. Well, why not? He's got Sean Spicer, Kellyanne Conway, Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller as advisors and spokespersons, and they are masters at deceit, lying, obfuscating and generally making statements without a shred of evidence to back them up. The object, clearly, is to tell as many lies, and as big as possible, that you can get away with, provide no backup whatsoever, and then depend on the forgetfulness or laziness of people who won't check it out. Getting people to believe you means pointing to someone else and making a blanket accusation. These are all summa cum laude graduates of the Stalin-Goebbels School of Propaganda. I believe it was Goebbels who said that it is always better to tell the ignorant masses the biggest lie possible, because you can count on their short memory to forget it.

The number of lies, the type, and the intensity are a clear indication of exactly what is going on. The orange haired buffoon was fussing and whining about someone in the White House "leaking" information, like that's something that never happened before, or that among the assorted flotsam of liars and opportunists he's surrounded himself with, there's not anyone willing to break their oath of loyalty to advance their own agenda and position. :lol: The language is pretty easily translated, "Obama was using White House sources to wiretap the Trump campaign" easily translates to "The news about our contacts with the Russians, and our campaign's connection to them for help winning the election is really bad, and we desperately need to come up with some kind of diversion." Don't need his tax returns or confirmation to determine their level of desperation.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Sandy » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:23 am

Dave Roberts wrote:Jim, I'm fascinated by the fixation on Benghazi and 4 deaths while Reagan got a pass on 242 dead in Beirut where the guards were not even issued live ammunition per the POTUS order.


Or Bush getting a pass on a $3 trillion dollar expense, a couple thousand American dead, over 100,000 Iraqis, and the whole Iraq war, which was the main cause of the rise of ISIS.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Jim » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:56 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:Jim, I'm fascinated by the fixation on Benghazi and 4 deaths while Reagan got a pass on 242 dead in Beirut where the guards were not even issued live ammunition per the POTUS order.

I'm fascinated by the fact that you can't see the difference. Reagan did not lie about those deaths but took full responsibility. He didn't say the suicide bomber was just a bit offended and therefore took the action. Also, you need to study that situation, including the number of French soldiers killed at the same time, the purpose of the mission and the fact that the U.S. was not acting unilaterally, just as it was not acting unilaterally in Iraq. Comparing apples with oranges is tempting but always a mistake.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Sandy » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:19 pm

Jim wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:Jim, I'm fascinated by the fixation on Benghazi and 4 deaths while Reagan got a pass on 242 dead in Beirut where the guards were not even issued live ammunition per the POTUS order.

I'm fascinated by the fact that you can't see the difference. Reagan did not lie about those deaths but took full responsibility. He didn't say the suicide bomber was just a bit offended and therefore took the action. Also, you need to study that situation, including the number of French soldiers killed at the same time, the purpose of the mission and the fact that the U.S. was not acting unilaterally, just as it was not acting unilaterally in Iraq. Comparing apples with oranges is tempting but always a mistake.


Kind of like your comparisons of Trump actions to Clinton or Obama. Trump is lying and offers no substantiation, while President Obama and Hillary Clinton always do. Apples and oranges.

I don't recall that Reagan took "full responsibility." He issued his normal apology when he got caught making a bad mistake, but that doesn't change the fact that his orders included a high level of incompetence and an inept understanding of the situation, including the lack of live ammunition that Dave mentioned. Iraq was based on a pretense, first, to disable Iraq's stockpile of nonexistent "weapons of mass destruction," and then, when that didn't pan out, it became "liberation" from the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein, who was the main point of balance keeping a Su'nni insurgency from forming, which it promptly did once we took him out. I believe you can check the record and find out that Iraq was all planned by Cheney long before the jets crashed into the World Trade Center, and everything related to it was just pretense. Comparing either one of those to Benghazi is apples and oranges. And Republican incompetence in Congress led to the Gowdy investigation into Benghazi having to be hidden among media reports so people wouldn't know that they blamed the military, and found a dead zero to pin on either the Secretary of State or the President. Zero. Nada. Nothing. Your posts indicate that you haven't ever bothered to read that report.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:33 pm

Jim wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:Jim, I'm fascinated by the fixation on Benghazi and 4 deaths while Reagan got a pass on 242 dead in Beirut where the guards were not even issued live ammunition per the POTUS order.

I'm fascinated by the fact that you can't see the difference. Reagan did not lie about those deaths but took full responsibility. He didn't say the suicide bomber was just a bit offended and therefore took the action. Also, you need to study that situation, including the number of French soldiers killed at the same time, the purpose of the mission and the fact that the U.S. was not acting unilaterally, just as it was not acting unilaterally in Iraq. Comparing apples with oranges is tempting but always a mistake.


Jim, I know all those things, but the word "responsibility" has seldom been spoken. The Congress had reduced funds for embassy security, and they tried to say that had nothing to do with Benghazi. The Obama administration took "responsibility" but they refused to take "blame." Remember also that this did not happen at an embassy or secure compound guarded by Marines. It took place at a consulate, an office that was not secure. I have often seen foreign consulates in this country. Most of them are simply a part of a strip mall. No one expects them to be secure. Three of those killed were the security personnel accompanying the ambassador. It was a tragic loss of life, but not one that was supposed to be secure. Reagan took "responsibility," but he never accepted blame either, especially not for the fact that live ammunition was not issued in spite of warnings that the barracks were a target.

By the way, I will always have a soft spot about the Beirut bombing because one of the kids killed there was my next door neighbor's son, and I watched as a Blue Star family tried to get an explanation for the death of their son, Sgt. Dennis Cook. By the way, Sgt. Cook's father spent 29 years himself in the Marines and retired as a Sergeant/Major.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Jim » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:56 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:
Jim wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:Jim, I'm fascinated by the fixation on Benghazi and 4 deaths while Reagan got a pass on 242 dead in Beirut where the guards were not even issued live ammunition per the POTUS order.

I'm fascinated by the fact that you can't see the difference. Reagan did not lie about those deaths but took full responsibility. He didn't say the suicide bomber was just a bit offended and therefore took the action. Also, you need to study that situation, including the number of French soldiers killed at the same time, the purpose of the mission and the fact that the U.S. was not acting unilaterally, just as it was not acting unilaterally in Iraq. Comparing apples with oranges is tempting but always a mistake.


Jim, I know all those things, but the word "responsibility" has seldom been spoken. The Congress had reduced funds for embassy security, and they tried to say that had nothing to do with Benghazi. The Obama administration took "responsibility" but they refused to take "blame." Remember also that this did not happen at an embassy or secure compound guarded by Marines. It took place at a consulate, an office that was not secure. I have often seen foreign consulates in this country. Most of them are simply a part of a strip mall. No one expects them to be secure. Three of those killed were the security personnel accompanying the ambassador. It was a tragic loss of life, but not one that was supposed to be secure. Reagan took "responsibility," but he never accepted blame either, especially not for the fact that live ammunition was not issued in spite of warnings that the barracks were a target.

By the way, I will always have a soft spot about the Beirut bombing because one of the kids killed there was my next door neighbor's son, and I watched as a Blue Star family tried to get an explanation for the death of their son, Sgt. Dennis Cook. By the way, Sgt. Cook's father spent 29 years himself in the Marines and retired as a Sergeant/Major.


I watched the actual Congressional hearing, as well as read their testimony in the media, in which the State Dept. bureaucrats insisted that there was never a shortage of funds to see that the proper protection was provided for Benghazi. Downplaying the importance of a consulate, especially in a country the president has just wrecked and whose people he has killed by the thousands is beneath contempt.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Sandy » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:54 pm

Interesting. I watched some of those hearings, and read the report of the Gowdy committee. The Secretary of State accepted responsibility for the security levels at the consulate, in a way that Reagan never did for the lapses that took place in Beirut. The Gowdy committee report included information provided by US intelligence that led to the decision which determined the level of security at the consulate in Benghazi, and that recommendation was made, and signed, by General Petraeus. Essentially, the conclusion of the Gowdy committee, which led them to bury the completion of their report as far on the back pages as they could get it, was that the Secretary of State, and the President, acted correctly based on the information they were provided by the CIA. As much as the Republicans wanted to make something out of it, the facts just didn't bear out all of the speculation about Benghazi. Even a rabid partisan like Gowdy couldn't twist the facts to make political hay.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby KeithE » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:23 pm

Update: 317 falsehoods or misleading statements in 63 days in office.

Read all the details here.

This is really incredible that he has not yet been impeached.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Sandy » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:09 pm

The Russian collusion might well provide everything needed for that. There was Nunes whose actions more or less proved collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. He went to tattle about the information the committee got from the FBI, and then to get marching orders from the buffoon. Now, incredibly, Flynn is asking for immunity in exchange for his testimony, something that he criticized Clinton aids for doing, and which he said was evidence that they had committed a crime. On top of that, today the buffoon attacked the freedom caucus. There are plenty of Republicans who want to see the buffoon gone, and the more distance between his departure and 2018, the better. I just hope that the buffoon and his gang don't do irreparable damage to the country in the meantime.

MSNBC did an outstanding job of putting this story together tonight. Wait until they've posted it on their websites, particularly Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow, and watch the clips. First of all, the journalism standards are outstanding, not like the crap you see on Faux News or Breitbart or World Net Daily or the Daily Wire. And second, they back up their reporting, and substantiate their facts. Maddow is particularly adept at this.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby KeithE » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:16 pm

Sandy wrote:The Russian collusion might well provide everything needed for that. There was Nunes whose actions more or less proved collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. He went to tattle about the information the committee got from the FBI, and then to get marching orders from the buffoon. Now, incredibly, Flynn is asking for immunity in exchange for his testimony, something that he criticized Clinton aids for doing, and which he said was evidence that they had committed a crime. On top of that, today the buffoon attacked the freedom caucus. There are plenty of Republicans who want to see the buffoon gone, and the more distance between his departure and 2018, the better. I just hope that the buffoon and his gang don't do irreparable damage to the country in the meantime.

MSNBC did an outstanding job of putting this story together tonight. Wait until they've posted it on their websites, particularly Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow, and watch the clips. First of all, the journalism standards are outstanding, not like the crap you see on Faux News or Breitbart or World Net Daily or the Daily Wire. And second, they back up their reporting, and substantiate their facts. Maddow is particularly adept at this.


Didn’t watch any news today until now.

Joy (filling in for Laurence O’Donnell) just started her program with a video of Michael Flynn saying ‘when you have been given immunity, you are probably guilty of a crime’. Well he has asked for immunity himself, today. I’ll add he will only be given immunity, if it is pre-determined that he has something very significant to say. Only law enforcement (e.g. FBI) can grant that immunity.

Malcolm Nance pointed out that these two NSC people (30 and 32 year old and selected by Flynn) who let Nunes into the WH on a blatantly political mission should have their security clearances removed. It should be clear that the gray haired oligarch orchestrated this (remember the video 2 weeks ago when he said within two weeks there would be enlightening findings that vindicated his claims of Obama “wire-tapping” him which he downgraded to “surveillance of some sort”).

And there is so much more. Impeachment should be just around the corner. Should be!
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby Sandy » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:31 am

There are those in Congress, mostly Republicans, who will put their political agenda ahead of everything else, including their own integrity and the strength and integrity of our election process. I'm not sure they see meddling in the election by Russia as a problem, as long as it allows them to impose their own agenda. The buffoon said it himself, publicly, that he could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot someone, and they would let it happen. Money and personal gain trumps any sense of patriotism or loyalty, and I use that T word with its full implication, because he is the embodiment of money over integrity.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby William Thornton » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:44 am

Well, since you're talking about that buffoon and walking filibuster chuck Schumer, I certainly agree with you.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby KeithE » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:43 am

William Thornton wrote:Well, since you're talking about that buffoon and walking filibuster chuck Schumer, I certainly agree with you.

William,
Have you read the Washington Post list of lies??
Exodus 20:16, Deuteronomy 5:20, Exodus 23:1-2, Proverbs 19:5

And read this about Trump’s penchant for revenge.

Perhaps you should seriously revisit your support for Trump.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby William Thornton » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:43 pm

Didn't vote for him. He's the only prez we have at the moment....vastly superior to what we'd have with Hil.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby KeithE » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:41 pm

William Thornton wrote:Didn't vote for him. He's the only prez we have at the moment....vastly superior to what we'd have with Hil.

“vasty superior” ?? I can’t imagine more turmoil than we have seen with Trump (although I’m sure FoxNews would be afire finding fault with “Hil”, occasionally with justification).

I’m still hoping that Trump will do some good things like Infrastructure/jobs, tax simplification (though I’m skeptical that it will be done with the middle/lower class in mind), and trade balancing or perhaps keeping Obama’s internet privacy rules (now on his desk).

Just some questions?
Did you read much of the WP’s 100 days of Trump claims site (now up to 338 false or misleading claims) or the Trump revenge article?
Do you approve of falsehoods/shading the truth (if there is a justified end)?
Do you approve of the well-documented ‘if you screw me, I will screw you 10 times worse’ philosophy of Trump?
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby William Thornton » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:51 pm

Hey...save your interrogatories for someone else. No one is obligated to jump through your hoops. You have a free run here to link at will.

I think it proves there is a God in heaven that you have the congressman you have...and that He has a sense of humor.
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Edsall on March 30 NY Times

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:11 pm

He was in Atlanta in 86. Has been on the case for a long time.

Any literate fair minded person can weigh, discern the difference between the political interpretation of events versus the mendacity of Trump and Company. It is sad Jim and Thornton cannot read the definitive political biography of Clinton, HRC, one dollar now at the dollar tree. Author has the definitive chapter on Benghazi. Does not equate with the deceit of Trump and Company.

Again Edsall had the goods on Adrian Rogers and Pressler and Ed Young in 86 and now he shines the light on Trump
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby KeithE » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:13 pm

William Thornton wrote:Hey...save your interrogatories for someone else. No one is obligated to jump through your hoops. You have a free run here to link at will.

I think it proves there is a God in heaven that you have the congressman you have...and that He has a sense of humor.

That is your privilege.

Image

proves there is a God in heaven”?? :)
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby William Thornton » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:16 pm

I was expecting a graph...got a pic. David used to use that one occasionally.
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Re: Pathological Liar

Postby KeithE » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:15 pm

William Thornton wrote:I was expecting a graph...got a pic. David used to use that one occasionally.

And it applies to people who refuse to look at graphs (aka as DATA) because it upends their preconceived, wished-for version of truth.
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