Alternative Facts

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Alternative Facts

Postby Haruo » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:22 am

This president and his press room folks have me worried. Alternative facts for something like global warming (and its anthropoid causation if any) that are complex and subject to reinterpretation are one thing, but denying it's raining or that Saturday's crowd was bigger than Friday's, things that are readily and immediately verifiable, is just scary and absurd at the same time. Chaplinesque in the Great Dictator sense.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby KeithE » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:09 am

Control of media is one sign of fascism.

Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Some steps towards most of these “signs” are apparent, but we are a long way off from Hitler or Franco - let’s keep it that way.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:27 am

Haruo wrote:This president and his press room folks have me worried. Alternative facts for something like global warming (and its anthropoid causation if any) that are complex and subject to reinterpretation are one thing, but denying it's raining or that Saturday's crowd was bigger than Friday's, things that are readily and immediately verifiable, is just scary and absurd at the same time. Chaplinesque in the Great Dictator sense.


When someone lies even about something small and insignificant it makes me think they are habitual liars.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Shawn Koester » Sat May 27, 2017 1:47 am

Alternative Facts as used by the establishment (read- Corporate Democrats) ala Corey Booker, Hillary Clinton and as defined by Trump and his brand of Republicans is any media that is critical of the establishment, or the pre-manufactured narrative.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby KeithE » Sat May 27, 2017 10:40 am

Shawn Koester wrote:Alternative Facts as used by the establishment (read- Corporate Democrats) ala Corey Booker, Hillary Clinton and as defined by Trump and his brand of Republicans is any media that is critical of the establishment, or the pre-manufactured narrative.

That’s one reason I like DATA (e.g. facts, numeric plots, and real quotes from people in context). Much more reliable than second hand reporting that (to varying degrees) color the facts or make up fantasies (aka "fake news”) for political effect.

You remind me of my son coming out of Princeton Seminary with stories I couldn’t buy at the time, that corporations and the media was controlling the national narrative in false ways. He was right. I will only modify that to say that there is more than one “establishment” or “narrative”.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby KeithE » Sun May 28, 2017 9:41 am

Shawn Koester wrote:Alternative Facts as used by the establishment (read- Corporate Democrats) ala Corey Booker, Hillary Clinton and as defined by Trump and his brand of Republicans is any media that is critical of the establishment, or the pre-manufactured narrative.

The miscues and malpractices of Trump and Hillary are well known. What do you have against Cory Booker?
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Shawn Koester » Sun May 28, 2017 7:07 pm

My issue with Cory Booker is he is Obama 2.0 except less polished. Like his model Obama, and other corporate Democrats, he takes money from corporations and PACs. He voted down a bill drafted by Bernie Sanders which would have imported prescription drugs for lower prices but because he is doing the bidding of his corporate overlords he opposed it claiming that there were no safety guidelines for Canadian drugs which is false because Canadian drugs are regulated at higher standards than American medications. In an act of political expediency, he backpedals his own vote and decides to give his vote to a similar bill by Sanders.

KeithE wrote:
Shawn Koester wrote:Alternative Facts as used by the establishment (read- Corporate Democrats) ala Corey Booker, Hillary Clinton and as defined by Trump and his brand of Republicans is any media that is critical of the establishment, or the pre-manufactured narrative.

The miscues and malpractices of Trump and Hillary are well known. What do you have against Cory Booker?
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Jon Estes » Mon May 29, 2017 1:04 am

Timothy Bonney wrote:
Haruo wrote:This president and his press room folks have me worried. Alternative facts for something like global warming (and its anthropoid causation if any) that are complex and subject to reinterpretation are one thing, but denying it's raining or that Saturday's crowd was bigger than Friday's, things that are readily and immediately verifiable, is just scary and absurd at the same time. Chaplinesque in the Great Dictator sense.


When someone lies even about something small and insignificant it makes me think they are habitual liars.



Would it be fair to say then Tim, that all participants on this forum are habitual liars?

I think it is safe to say that everyone on this forum has lied at some point and to say no... would be a lie.

From one habitual liar (by your definition) to another.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Jon Estes » Mon May 29, 2017 1:27 am

Haruo wrote:This president and his press room folks have me worried. Alternative facts for something like global warming (and its anthropoid causation if any) that are complex and subject to reinterpretation are one thing, but denying it's raining or that Saturday's crowd was bigger than Friday's, things that are readily and immediately verifiable, is just scary and absurd at the same time. Chaplinesque in the Great Dictator sense.


The king of alternative facts...

Image

Married to the queen of alternative facts...

Image

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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Sandy » Mon May 29, 2017 10:52 am

:lol:

Jon's post is so laughable, coming from a Trump supporter. Bill lost his title as king of "alternative facts," if he ever had it after Dick Cheney came around, to Donald Trump. The Clinton's couldn't catch up to the orange haired buffoon in a lifetime of trying, and in combo with his sons and son-in-law, the Trumps have cornered the market on alternative facts.

:lol:
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby William Thornton » Mon May 29, 2017 1:52 pm

The Clintons don't bother with alternative facts when plain lies will do. Same for the disgraced wassermanschultz.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby KeithE » Mon May 29, 2017 3:15 pm

I challenge Clinton or Obama detractors to list lies numbering even close in number to that offered by Trump. All politicians have lied. But in Trump’s case. they stopped counting at 492 at the 100th day.

Bill Clinton in his perverted mind said the oral sex did not count as sex relations.
Hillary Clinton was partially right about the film contributing to the Benghazi uprising as well as more local anti-US torment. Both contributed to what degree is uncertain. Besides they were trying not to tip-off Al Qaeda related elements in Libya.
Obama was thinking that those on group health care plans could keep their own doctor and on first order that was correct.

Thus I see a modicum of justification for these three purported lies.

You have a long way to go to catch up with 492 lies (few of which have any justification other than mental illness).

Pathological liar and fake news purveyor and delusional are all apropos tags for Trump.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Sandy » Mon May 29, 2017 3:43 pm

If the only thing President Obama's detractors can come up with is his statement about being able to keep your doctor under the ACA, which was factually correct when it was made, and would have been 100% true had insurance companies not scrambled to make changes at the last minute, then you have nothing. It irks conservatives into fits that the Obama administration was never corrupt or scandal plagued like several of their more recent administrations. And as it turned out, few Americans had to actually switch doctors.

Hillary Clinton was the subject of more scrutiny than any presidential candidate in history. If the orange haired buffoon had been exposed to a tenth of the investigations she had to endure, he'd be in jail now. The conservative Republicans, in the interest of cutting spending, spent millions to find out that what she said was the way things were.

Bill Clinton was a classic style politician, and he could very well tell a lie, or at least, manipulate the facts to fit his perspective, especially when backed into a corner. But Reagan was pretty good at that, too, and I think the count on his successor, George H.W. Bush, was about 70 or so in his testimony to congress to cover up Iran Contra. The buffoon administration is unprecedented in its dishonesty.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby William Thornton » Mon May 29, 2017 4:13 pm

We could do this six ways from Sunday because there is an inexhaustible supply of political crap material available from both parties. I doubt anyone's mind will ever be changed and it will likely not be long before someone gets their nose out of joint and calls for moderation. We saw that earlier with Keith and Jim. Jim has removed himself and we are poorer for it.

If Keith wants to flail about with his lie meter have at it. If Sandy wants to parrot the dem talking points, enhanced by childish names, have at it. We can all do the same. So much for mature discourse. :roll:
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby KeithE » Mon May 29, 2017 5:13 pm

William Thornton wrote:We could do this six ways from Sunday because there is an inexhaustible supply of political crap material available from both parties. I doubt anyone's mind will ever be changed and it will likely not be long before someone gets their nose out of joint and calls for moderation. We saw that earlier with Keith and Jim. Jim has removed himself and we are poorer for it.

If Keith wants to flail about with his lie meter have at it. If Sandy wants to parrot the dem talking points, enhanced by childish names, have at it. We can all do the same. So much for mature discourse. :roll:


Remember, William, there is a record in the Administrative Notes that shows you encouraging me to “use my executive powers” and go ahead and warn Jim. With mention of guns I thought it appropriate.

Didn't think you would even attempt. Your mind is set n concrete and you have no desire to back up your close-mindedness. Research into facts is not your style.

Any else, want to try. Even 20 documented lies from either Clinton or Obama?
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby William Thornton » Mon May 29, 2017 5:15 pm

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:We could do this six ways from Sunday because there is an inexhaustible supply of political crap material available from both parties. I doubt anyone's mind will ever be changed and it will likely not be long before someone gets their nose out of joint and calls for moderation. We saw that earlier with Keith and Jim. Jim has removed himself and we are poorer for it.

If Keith wants to flail about with his lie meter have at it. If Sandy wants to parrot the dem talking points, enhanced by childish names, have at it. We can all do the same. So much for mature discourse. :roll:

Didn't think you would even attempt. Your mind is set n concrete and you have no desire to back up your close-mindedness.

Any else. Even 20 documented lies from either Clinton or Obama?


Bingo! You're familiar with the term. :roll:
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby KeithE » Mon May 29, 2017 5:24 pm

William Thornton wrote:
KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:We could do this six ways from Sunday because there is an inexhaustible supply of political crap material available from both parties. I doubt anyone's mind will ever be changed and it will likely not be long before someone gets their nose out of joint and calls for moderation. We saw that earlier with Keith and Jim. Jim has removed himself and we are poorer for it.

If Keith wants to flail about with his lie meter have at it. If Sandy wants to parrot the dem talking points, enhanced by childish names, have at it. We can all do the same. So much for mature discourse. :roll:

Didn't think you would even attempt. Your mind is set n concrete and you have no desire to back up your close-mindedness.

Any else. Even 20 documented lies from either Clinton or Obama?


Bingo! You're familiar with the term. :roll:

What term is that William?
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby KeithE » Mon May 29, 2017 5:27 pm

Sandy wrote:If the only thing President Obama's detractors can come up with is his statement about being able to keep your doctor under the ACA, which was factually correct when it was made, and would have been 100% true had insurance companies not scrambled to make changes at the last minute, then you have nothing. It irks conservatives into fits that the Obama administration was never corrupt or scandal plagued like several of their more recent administrations. And as it turned out, few Americans had to actually switch doctors.

Hillary Clinton was the subject of more scrutiny than any presidential candidate in history. If the orange haired buffoon had been exposed to a tenth of the investigations she had to endure, he'd be in jail now. The conservative Republicans, in the interest of cutting spending, spent millions to find out that what she said was the way things were.

Bill Clinton was a classic style politician, and he could very well tell a lie, or at least, manipulate the facts to fit his perspective, especially when backed into a corner. But Reagan was pretty good at that, too, and I think the count on his successor, George H.W. Bush, was about 70 or so in his testimony to congress to cover up Iran Contra. The buffoon administration is unprecedented in its dishonesty.

Amen to all of that especially the last sentence in red.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Sandy » Mon May 29, 2017 6:50 pm

William Thornton wrote:We could do this six ways from Sunday because there is an inexhaustible supply of political crap material available from both parties. I doubt anyone's mind will ever be changed and it will likely not be long before someone gets their nose out of joint and calls for moderation. We saw that earlier with Keith and Jim. Jim has removed himself and we are poorer for it.

If Keith wants to flail about with his lie meter have at it. If Sandy wants to parrot the dem talking points, enhanced by childish names, have at it. We can all do the same. So much for mature discourse. :roll:


So, the Trump administration calls their lies "alternative facts." And his supporters and other conservatives now have a new name for the truth. They call it "Democratic talking points." :D
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby William Thornton » Mon May 29, 2017 6:57 pm

Uh, you're confused, bro. The dem talking points are, following the Clintons, lies. They wrote the book. Alt-facts need not apply. :D
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon May 29, 2017 7:26 pm

William Thornton wrote:Uh, you're confused, bro. The dem talking points are, following the Clintons, lies. They wrote the book. Alt-facts need not apply. :D

How would you relate all alternate facts to the Ninth Commandment?
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Sandy » Mon May 29, 2017 8:36 pm

Sorry, William, but the standard has changed with the Donald buffoon at the helm. He's made the Clintons look like Sunday School teachers.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby William Thornton » Mon May 29, 2017 8:52 pm

Quite a discussion here...
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Jon Estes » Mon May 29, 2017 11:04 pm

Sandy wrote:Sorry, William, but the standard has changed with the Donald buffoon at the helm. He's made the Clintons look like Sunday School teachers.


Now we know how far off the rocker you have fallen.

Your level of your presentation of what you believe is close to those who believe Bush was responsible for 9/11.

Sad.
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Re: Alternative Facts

Postby Sandy » Tue May 30, 2017 8:19 am

Oh, come on, Jon, get over yourself. Trump's immorality and lying are open, and even he doesn't deny most of it. Any references to Bill Clinton, or even Hillary at this point is nothing but a distraction from what is really going on. Trump wins a corruption contest hands down, going away. Not that it matters. The Clintons aren't involved any more.

I hear the desert sun and heat has an affect on your thinking.
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