Possible Insights into "White Evangelical" Support for Trump

[Sandy]

https://www.facebook.com/perrystonevoe/

I've seen a couple of shares on Facebook leading to this organization in Tennessee, Perry Stone Ministries. Reading through comments following some of his posts is insightful. There's the usual very literal interpretation of specific verses to fit a point, but there's also an element of belief that what this man says is prophetic, and a "word from the Lord." Apparently, he's now on the oft-repeated theme of Obama being the antichrist with new "evidence" being his recent pushing of the US abstention of the most recent UN resolution on Israel. That's fired up the troops. There's a litany of reasons why Obama must be Muslim, can't be Christian, is evil, and why "our" country needed to be "taken back." There are plenty of flat statements that Trump was God's choice. Absolute silence on all of the immorality, lying, and corruption. The few voices that point these things out are attacked and beaten up verbally. There are a few themes that run through the recent conversation--

1.A prophecy, or prediction, that Stone apparently made that Obama would find a way to avoid leaving the White House by declaring some sort of state of emergency to prevent Trump from taking over.

2.The recent UN vote is a sign of the end times, and this failure to stand with Israel will bring destruction to the US and punishment and judgment, just like the Gaza decision brought on Hurricane Katrina. It's proof that Obama is a Muslim.

3.The recent UN decision is Obama's way of showing the rest of the Israel-hating world that he is ready to become the one-world leader by ascending to the position of Secretary General of the UN. HIs plan was to run for that position once Hillary was elected, so that the two of them could rule the world, he as the antichrist, she as the false prophet.

So, this ministry, from its statement of faith, is pretty high gear Charismatic, though it is "non-denominational" and probably attracts people from all backgrounds. This, however, is not the only place where I've heard or seen this kind of stuff. Interesting that many of those who post talk about how it is that God uses sinful people to accomplish his purpose, in reference to Obama being the means by which God is ushering in the end times, and then they turn around and defend Trump with almost the same words.

I think most of us here understand our theological perspective on most things, though the end-times discussions don't always bring that out. I do not share this perspective at all regarding the place of God's chosen people Israel, or the modern state of Israel, in prophecy at all. But this is certainly a factor in American politics and faith. Is anyone else seeing this stuff?

[William Thornton]

I'm not seeing this stuff in any SBC circles, although there is an SBC lunatic prophetic fringe.

Many SBCers are Israel only, anti Palestinians and not a few make a living off of doomsday eschatology.

Best possible insight into trump support is that he is not Hillary.

[Haruo]

Sounds pretty loony-fringe to me, but then I'm in a blue county and state, so my glasses are perhaps tinted unhelpfully for making out this sort of stuff.

[Sandy]

When I was a student at a Southern Baptist seminary, Southwestern to be specific, the eschatology department was futurist, amillenial, and believed in a singular covenant in Christ, not a separate restoration of the old covenant for persevering Jews in another "dispensation." And there was a lot of conversation about whether the modern state of Israel, in which most of the Jewish population is Ashkenazim, not Sephardim, and even the latter only come from two tribes, Judah and Benjamin, was the object of restoration prophecy, or whether those were allusions to all of the "chosen" people, defined by Peter, as the church. But I think most Southern Baptists are on the Tim LaHaye train as far as eschatology goes now, and buy into this eschatological role of the state of Israel.

The outrage over this UN vote is astonishing, in that Israel itself had already agreed to its terms. This is just the game that Netanyahu plays.

The idea of people being gifted with "prophecy," and then making declarations that thousands believe are as true as the Bible is frightening, along with some of the theological statements reflected in those facebook comments. And there's not much evidence of belief in the parts of the Bible that talk about how to treat other human beings in the responses from people who disagree. There are comments imbedded in there about "taking out" people that don't agree. There was a lot of that from Trump supporters during the campaign as well. Religious crusades can be deadly, especially when they get defensive as the departures accelerate.

[Haruo]

Has anybody checked under Trump's toupée to see if he's got Gorbachev's signature rebirthmark?

[Stephen Fox]

I may be wrong but I think the Stone Brothers, the gospel singers have roots in Jerry Vines West Rome church.

For me the gut analysis of the Baptist wing of Trump support is prophetically spot on in the testimonial, the solid preaching today of Bill Leonard in Baptist news about the wind up Jesus.

Ive gone far and wide pushing the edge of friendship status on facebook with that one today, even spotlighting in my end of the year blog review, high honors indeed for professor emeritus at Wake Forest Div and Dean of Baptist historians

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

Given the maps Keith posted, can you blame Palestinians for being ready to kill for their country? (Including Christian Palestinians like Sirhan Sirhan?) And given the level of support the US has consistently given the Israeli military, can you blame them for seeing us as the enemy just as much as Sharon or Netanyahu? Trump is not acting like this is an area where he's hoping to be a "dealmaker", either.

[Dave Roberts]

I've been convinced that the US policy in the Middle East has been far too pro-Israel. In fact, we seem to have turned a blind eye to the fact that most of our Christian brothers and sisters in that area are Palestinian, not Israeli. In fact, the Israelis could care less about Dispensational Premillennialism except as it influences US politics to dish out 4 to 5-billion per year in military aid to them. This state of war has been going since 1948 almost continually, and until the US pressures Israel in terms of dollars, no deal will be made. We hear the same chorus every time there is a land grab by Israel--a theft of Palestinian lands at gunpoint--from the religious right that we must stand with Israel. Besides a very faulty theology, it is certainly a sub-Christian ethic to treat others as second-class human beings to further a religious agenda. Is God really dependent on US policy? If he is, doesn't that make him into our idol?

[Jim]

Ridiculing the evangelicals for the importance they place on the OT connection of God with Israel is not the same as ridiculing the mainstreamers for approving the marriage of man to man, the former being scriptural, the latter constituting apostasy, heresy or whatever. To the extent that current Israel is the extension of OT Israel, the naysayers might well take notice, and I’m not a rabid evangelical. God keeps his promises. For the mainstreamers, God also promises his wrath.

In 1947, Palestine’s population was 1,845,000, 67% Arab and 33% Jewish. The UN awarded 4,500 sq. miles of land to Arabs, 5,500 sq. miles to Israel; however, 60% of Israel was the Negev Desert, leaving the Israelis only 2,200 sq. miles of arable land, with the small Jerusalem area belonging to both. The Israelis agreed immediately, while to this day the Arabs (Palestinians) have virtually never agreed to anything lasting, though parleys have been held (Carter, Clinton, for instance) and documents have been signed and violated on both sides. The total area is the size of Massachusetts, so the sides are in each others’ faces every day.

The wars began immediately in 1948 as the entire area around Israel – Syria, Jordan, Egypt…the Muslim-dominated governments attempted to literally wipe out the Jews, as is the declaration to this day of the Palestinians and Iranians, for instance. Then came the wars in 1956 (Israel to the Suez with help from England and France and Eisenhower’s rebuke that stopped it); 1967 (a significant Israeli land-grab although Jordan was probably satisfied to get rid of the West Bank Arabs); 1973-74 (Yom Kippur). Gaza and the Sinai went back and forth as agreements were made but Israel took the Golan Heights and the West Bank for good. The Israelis, with U.S. help, have a sustainable democracy. The Palestinians have nothing, though some sort of government was formed once and rejected as nothing more than a vehicle to kill Israel, which in the meantime signed peace treaties with both Egypt and Jordan.

So…take your pick. The democrats, generally, if not anti-Israel, are not friendly. The republicans, probably overwhelmingly, are pro-Israel, if for no other reason simply that Israel is an outpost in the Middle East militarily, as well as spiritually, which gets back to the question of the evangelicals and the OT “warnings.”

Israel will continue to build as its population grows and its safety from constant rocket attacks is challenged. These people rub elbows and hate each other, but all of it could have been avoided in 1948 when the Palestinians would agree to nothing. Both sides have been right and wrong at times but the militarily strongest, Israel, has prevailed, just as the U.S. has prevailed throughout the world. Perhaps the worst sufferer, especially for Christians, has been Lebanon.