Post election words to my mod/lib friends

[William Thornton]

I didn't vote for Trump but am pleased (shocked, stunned) that he won and not Hillary.

We've been doing this for many years and have post election exchanges since the first Bush election in 2000. Here is what I say to you.

1. I haven't been all that emotionally invested in politics for some years. After Obama's re-election I wrote a piece that I wasn't going to spend the rest of my life joining some of my con friends in complaining. Same for crowing about Trump. While it would have been tougher to take this stance if Hil was elected (Obama is a likable person and a scintillating speaker. I love hearing him in campaign mode skewering Trump), I would have done my best. Frankly, I was resigned to her election.

2. I recognize that some of you are keenly disappointed with the election. Timothy offered to send Trump a campaign donation and Sandy pronounced him "finished" a few weeks ago. I sincerely hope that we don't see a revival of the ihatebush forum that ran for several years here. Unproductive, I'd say. The cheap shots on Trump's family are unworthy of my fellow Christians here. Perhaps after the post-election hysteria those could be dropped. I don't recall anything close to vicious ridicule of Obama by the few cons here except for one commenter that comes here with irascible eruptions and that only in rare spurts.

3. I feel sure I'll join you in some criticism of Trump along the way.

4. This place has just a few regular commenters and we've been together for many years. We range across the political spectrum. The farther Timothy has journeyed from the good ol' SBC, the more liberal he has become. Fine. I'm glad he's happy in his place of service. Keith the technocrat finally found data that failed him but he was not much more of a fan of Hil's than me. Sandy is that odd bird - political lib/mod but religious con. Maybe he will stop relying on the Democratic party talking points du jour. Dave is eminently sensible. Haruo always demonstrates a keen wit and has what Hil lacked, likability. Neil doesn't get too strident in politics. Fox is Fox and should have lots of fun the next four years, far more than if Hil was prez. Flick doesn't do politics. Ed's busy motorhoming. ET has been remarkably restrained; maybe he could take a small post-election shot or two.

5. It's not going to be as bad as my chicken little mod/lib friends think nor as good as my triumphant con friends think.

6. What a great country where we can have surprises like this.

[Haruo]

It is very hard for me (and even harder I suspect for my wife) to understand how anyone who believes in God and Jesus can be pleased, or shocked/stunned in a pleasant way, that a man who asserts his lack of need for repentance, brags about grabbing women by the pussy without their permission, has the active support of the Russian government, favors torture of prisoners and killing unarmed civilians because of who they are related to, etc., a man who has made admiring comments about Gaddafi, Saddam, one of the North Korean leaders, has been elected President of the United States. That 80% of voters who identify themselves as evangelical Christians can justify to themselves having voted for him is heartbreaking.

I can understand not wanting Clinton to be president; I didn't vote for her, myself. I can imagine wanting to privatize Social Security (but hey, then refund me my contributions first!). I can understand wanting to build a wall along the borders. I can understand wanting to repeal Roe v. Wade and gay marriage. But to be pleased that this man was the choice to these ends? William, I am quite completely amazed at you.

[William Thornton]

"And not Hillary" is the key.
__________

Rescued from the church trash can:

Old fashioned revival hour songs; Rodeheaver, 1950

Heavenly Highway Hymns, shape notes, stamps-Baxter, 1956

The Service hymnal; Hope Pub., 1941

Do you have these?

[Haruo]

[William Thornton]

Get me your address and I'll do it

[Joseph Patrick]

[William Thornton]

There is this whole group of religious conservatives, the #nevertrump crowd. Turns out they weren't many and had little influence. I never adopted the label but identified with them...and was not going to vote for Trump. Clinton became more odious, her personally with her machine/cronies/family/foundation as part of the package, than Trump. While I voted for Neither, I'm pleased not to have Bill and hill on the front page for 4 or 8 years. I'll take the risk of the GOP in charge of two of the three branches of gummit. We will see where it goes.

We didn't have another choice for prez. My mod-lib friends might pause and reflect a bit on what exactly the thinking in the hinterlands was that cause such enthusiasm for trumps candidacy. If you find the answer to be the smug, elitist self-justifying one that invokes all the phobias and -isms, I suggest a reality check.

[Haruo]

[William Thornton]

Is the collection getting pretty large these days?

[Haruo]

Somewhere around 360 or 370 I think.

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

Are my mod/lib friends now going to eschew their position of limiting free speech by restricting campaign spending in favor of restricting free speech by controls on social media, given that Hil spend a fortune and still lost to a cheapskate campaign spender?

[Dave Roberts]

William, the outcome of the election seems to have hinged around several factors. This is not an exhaustive list.

First, Hillary's campaign ignored what is happening in the smaller communities of the country. The rustbelt bought into the promises of brining jobs back to America. At present, the prosperous cities voted Democratic, and much of the rest of the county voted Trump. The recovery from the 2008 Bush Recession has not touched people in those communities except for those who have investment income. I wish Trump nothing but the best in bringing jobs to these areas, but the idea that the old factories will soon be reopening is ludicrous. Modern manufacturing also requires a highly educated workforce, something missing along many of the former industrial corridors of our country. Our economy functions on consumer spending and, in many of these communities, on the spending of retirees. Health care is one of the few growing sectors as we baby boomers age.

Second, there is a great deal of alienation in much of the country. Trump tapped that alienation. People did not like Trump, but they feel so left out that they would grasp someone who was telling them what they wanted to hear. Already, with discussions of Social Security privatization, I'm hearing seniors questioning the fact that they voted for Trump. They had never bothered to look at Mike Pence's record in Congress on this issue and that of voucher replacement of Medicare. Already, there is new alienation growing.

Third, Trump ran against a wounded candidate from the start. The GOP spent eight years blocking Obama, refused to confirm a Supreme Court nominee, in violation of their constitutional authority and to dangle that appointment before the Christian right, and spent massive amounts of taxpayer money on Hillary witch hunts before the campaigns ever started. They really found nothing in their efforts, but they created damaging publicity by the hour. The FBI director needs to be fired while Obama is still in office and prosecuted for violation of the Hatch Act. His hatchet job finished Hillary in clear violation of the laws he was sworn to uphold.

Fourth, the Democratic Party was determined to have Hillary as their candidate, no matter whether she was electable or not. I was convinced from the start that either Bernie or Joe Biden would have won. i understand Biden not running, but the Super Delegates left a bad taste in the mouths of many out in the hinterlands.

I pray for Trump's tenure, as I have prayed for that of Obama. How he handles his tenure is what will shape many things that lie ahead for the country that I love. I pray that the Trump of Wednesday morning and not the cheerleader of "Lock her up" will be the man who emerges for the coming days.

[KeithE]

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

As soon as Dems fail to carry the states needed to win, whining starts about the electoral college. Get over it.

Hillary was wounded, mostly self inflicted. She could have defused the email scandal by not lying and trying to finesse it.

Dems dream opponent was trump...showing how out of touch they were with the electorate.

I agree that the coronation approach was harmful.

Let the recriminations begin.

Bernie would have fixed most of that.

[Jim]

The supreme irony in the election “catastrophe” (for those who are still on aspirin and long naps) lay in the administration's nefarious efforts to fix it. After Bubba had private meeting with AG Lynch, FBI Director Comey lays out an airtight case against Hillary (12 minutes long) vis-a-vis the two illegal secret servers she had installed—install guy took the Fifth. He took one minute to exonerate her. Later, in House hearing in answer to questions about her statements before the same committee (11-hour marathon I watched on C-Span), Comey said she lied—perjury. I watched that, too. Ten days before election, Comey discovers 650,000 new emails that have to be examined, a job entailing probably months. A few days later before election, Comey exonerated her again, all emails accounted for in a week or so. He should have known by that time that nobody believed anything he said but Hillary was feeling vulnerable, or at least somebody in her crowd was worried so a second exoneration was felt absolutely necessary. It didn't work and I'm still laughing. She was as guilty as sin and anyone with walking-around-sense knew it.

[Jim]

The case for the electoral college, which one party or the other disapproves every election account the results, is made easily this cycle. The difference in vote totals nationally was a mere 600,000 between Trump (60,400,000) and Clinton (61,000,000). In New York (29 electoral votes) Clinton had a plurality of 1,500,000 and in California (55 electoral votes) a plurality of 2,700,000, ergo Clinton had a plurality in just those two states of 4,200,000 (84 electoral votes). So, Trump could have been defeated overwhelmingly (popular vote) by two states, never mind the other 48. Actually, just the big city votes could have done him in – NYC, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and San Diego, hotbeds of give-away entitlements. Add Chicago, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Memphis, Philadelphia, etc., all welfare-type cities, and get the picture throughout the country, the non-taxpayers collecting from the taxpayers. That's how the electoral college makes sense and the founders realized this. Just New York and California own 84 electoral votes, almost a third of the 270 needed to win, the devil take the rest of the country.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Dave Roberts]

I remember when the GOP screamed for the electoral college to be eliminated when JFK was elected and did not get a majority of the popular votes. What goes around comes around.

[Tim Bonney]