The Most Powerful Word from the DNC

[Tim Bonney]

[Jim]

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

I think the key to what you said, there, Tim is "the Church should be so educating its laity that over time they know as much of what their pastor learned in college and seminary as she or he can teach them." I believe God calls his ministers out of the congregation, where they should already have had a strong, foundational education in spiritual things. I believe the church should offer discipleship that is intense, comprehensive and able to provide that kind of foundation, but there's no way that the pastor alone is responsible for delivering the content. A formal education isn't the only way a church leader can be trained. I've met too many pastors who were dynamic, clearly called, connected to the Holy Spirit and successful in ministry who didn't go to either college or seminary. Most of them had a rigorous self-directed education, and they read, studied, put themselves in places where they could learn from other pastors, and did everything they could to continue to grow in ways that would lead to the effectiveness of their ministry, and the content of their preaching. But I also believe that it is the Holy Spirit, working through the congregation of the saints from which a minister's authority is derived.

A formal education is a wonderful thing, not a guarantee of excellence in teaching or preaching by any means, but a lot of maturity can be gained in a relatively short and intense period of time. It's not about how much content you gained, it's about whether or not the experience focused on teaching you how to think and reason, and how to discern "the spiritual things of God" as the apostle Paul says. And I think, in the culture in which we live, a formal education is a major asset for someone who experiences God's calling to ministry, and I believe it is a blessing to the church, and the primary means by which He provides the discipleship that his church's ministers need to do their work. Some denominations, Southern Baptists as an example, consider it important enough to devote a sizeable percentage of their cooperatively given finances to supporting it, and have led the way in making both college and seminary education almost universally accessible for those who are pursuing vocational ministry among their churches.

[Jim]

Happened to surf by again this morning and noted further wisdom concerning the great unwashed—my people. Actually, I did finish college (Centre College, Danville, Ky., location of national quadrennial veep debates) and did a bit toward a masters. What I learned was that there was so much I didn't know that I was/am among the great unwashed, unlike those who have arrived regarding total knowledge. From simply reading the papers and watching the news, as well as info learned from my son, a tenured professor at the University of Kentucky, I've discovered that virtual nutcases collectively are educating our young people now, at least in the humanities. When I notice Ph.D following a name, I immediately go into doubt-mode. Religiously, the “mainline” denominations, governed by hordes of Ph.Ds, are into Satanic political-correctness mode now, the most recent example being the ordaining (or however they're chosen) of a lesbian bishop in the Methodist Church. This type of “in-your-face-God” stuff bonds me ever more solidly with the “uneducated” railroaders (myself included) with whom I worked and had that wonderful attribute of common sense.

[Mrs Haruo]

I for one have received some very BAD advice from pastors who were so undereducated they didn't know what they didn't know. I trusted them because of their leadership role in the church I was attending, but my problems were more complicated than they should have tried to handle. After much damage was done to my children and my first marriage from following their advice, I later found out that one who billed himself as a "Christian Family Counselor" had his so-called credentials from a fly by night diploma mill. After hearing some sermons where people were warned against seeking help from doctors and psychologists and working on their spiritual life instead (mostly small town Baptist churches in the South or rural towns on the west coast) I had begun to take a dim view of any church with "Baptist" of any flavor on the sign post. I changed my mind when I found Haruo hanging out at a church where there was a diploma from M.I.T. on the wall behind the pastor's desk. Seems this one was planning to be a rocket scientist before he got called to the ministry. Finally a pastor I could talk with who didn't insult my intelligence. And I don't have a university degree either! Ok, an Associate in Science from a community college in California, with honors.

[Dave Roberts]

I always thought Dr. Frank Stagg had a great suggestion. He said that on the day people matriculated in seminary, everyone should get a degree. Then those who only wanted a degree could leave and those who wanted an education could stay. Makes perfect sense to me.

[Mrs Haruo]

Best quote of the day!!!