Time for Christians to Show Their Mettle

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

I saw that article and I agree with the author. I don't think it will happen. But I like what he's proposing.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Will some one explain to me how we can be living in a "Post Christian Nation" when we have never lived in a Christian Nation?

[dmorgan]

[KeithE]

[KeithE]

[Ed Pettibone]

[KeithE]

[Dave Roberts]

While the cultural warriors battle on, if you read the SCOTUS decision this week, it was not about cultural or religious norms at all. It treats marriage as a social contract entered under the law. It basically says that society cannot treat one sexual orientation with one set of rules and deny those rules and their legal and tax advantages to those who do not share the same sexual orientation. The cultural issues seem to ring in some of the dissents, but they are not part of the rationale of the majority opinion, as best I understand it.

[Ed Pettibone]

prior post Ed: Keith, when you say "American society had more Christian-based sexual/marital taboos in play". I think perhaps you are over looking the influx of immigrants both Christian and non Christian with the same or even stronger sexual taboos. Think Muslim. Also Christians from Myanmar (formerly Burma), the Republic of Georgia and Korea plus both South America and Africa. One of the young preachers that I met Last week is from Africa, speaks seven languages and feels he is called to minister to immigrants. He has established a church in an upscale suburb of Indianapolis. With an assist from an ABC church. Yes! Immigrants in an upscale neighborhood, that the last I knew had the only Rolls Royce dealership in the state.


KeithE: Ed, here you cutoff the start of my sentence which gives the timeframe when "American society had more Christian-based sexual/marital taboos in play” namely before the sexual revolution in the 60’s/70s. Surely you are old enough to remember these changes.

Immigrants have no doubt modified our culture to some degree in all periods of time. But “what’s that got it do with it”? Brooks’s suggestion that is.

Ed: Indeed there has been a downgrading of sexual morality in this country over the past hundred years. And yes immigrants have always had some degree of influence on our culture but I have some hope that with a growing percentage of Immigrants over the past two decades being protestants (baptist included here) who understand a Christian responsibility to be Christian witnesses, that a more Christian social standard will return including sexual standards.

There have been three major causes for the decline a. two world wars b. The invention of the automobile and proliferation of motels. c. TV with ever loosening of restriction as to program content. Of course Hollywood movies were a precursor.

As you may see, the decline started well before the 1960s. Think the Flapper era of the 20's.

And yes the CHURCH in total did a miserable job of responding to the challenges.

I am unclear when your source speaks of Sexual/Marital Taboos, how do you understand him. I have an idea that we may have differing ideas on this. but since you introduced his thinking, I will let you go first.

[John Sneed]

I can find a lot of agreement with the first part of the article in black. I personally am undecided on simply hunkering down and riding out the coming judgments until they pass so some semblance of evangelical Christianity remains. Of course, being ex military, the call to stand up and fight has a lot of appeal also.

All the parts in red are problematic. The author wants us to do good works (no problem there) while giving in to the people who are doing everything possible to drive us (evangelical Christians) out of existence. To do that would mean we would have to renounce the very heart of our evangelical faith. That we cannot do.

Personally, my response to all this is to spend more time petting my cats and less time dealing with people in public. The whole state of the United States these days depresses me and makes me cry. And that is all I will say.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: John it is good to hear from you. I think you have presented an accurate analysis of of the article in question.
Yet I am not depressed as you seem to be about the condition of the Nation. You may have noted that in the past three weeks my wife and I have traveled through 17 states. In we spent three days of our 18 in Branson MO., which is a huge entertainment mecca. We attended only one of the big shows "Dixie Roundup" a fun show with no obscenity.
Two of thee of restaurants had entertainers, Singing waits persons in one and a fellow with his own show in the other both presented some religious music with the secular. We had restaurant or motel meals in each state with the exception of New Jersey were we had a late lunch with my aunt in her home. We made a point of finding local establishments when possible. For the time of year I was a bit surprised to most of the women even at the swimming pools to be more modestly dressed that what I see on TV. At least three waitresses wrote may God bless you and/or you and you travels on our check. I heard very little cursing in discussions around us. At the restaurant just outside of Findlay Ohio this past Tuesday there was a group of 13 men having a prayer breakfast. I resisted the urge to ask which of then was Jesus, least they think I was making fun of them. And at the ABC Biennial there were a significant number of college aged young people. Every where people were expressing shock and displeasure with the Shooting in South Carolina. And then there was the Forgiveness by members of the church where it occurred. BTW at least a third of our 4,483 miles where off the interstates. I pray that all reading here may soon have the pleasure of a similar trip. Try it John it will cheer you up.

[Sandy]

The Christian church, including the conservative, Evangelical branch of it, not only exists, but thrives, in areas around the world where it is completely counter to the existing culture. I think all this rhetoric going on about "the sky is falling" and "taking back our country" is mostly political in nature, frustrated resentment over not having "their guy" in the White House, and not really being able, any more, to get government to do their bidding. Couple that with this premillennial, dispensational idea that God has some kind of covenant relationship with the USA based on our level of morality and righteousness, and that somehow we are reaching the tipping point because of what our government does, and some kind of collective, national judgment is coming particularly because of the specific "sins" we have committed that the church's culture war has been aimed at, and you have this "woe is us" mentality of a persecuted church, and a negative attitude about everything. Sorry, I don't buy that at all.

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

[Haruo]