Wave of State/City RFRAs

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

Ed, the difference is that JFK supported church and state separation and Santorum doesn't.

I don't care that he is a Catholic. I voted for John Kerry in a previous race.

But I do care that he'd love to go back to the "good old days" when governments could adopt a state Church. He is of the same ilk that persecuted your Baptist forebears.

With people like Rubio, Santorum, Bachmann, and Palin in the party Jeb Bush certainly has a better chance of getting the nomination if he wants it as the candidate for sanity. The problem is the religious right doesn't want Jeb because he isn't right wing enough for them

Make no mistake Bachmann and Santorum both would take us back to the dark ages if they could when their brand of religion would rule. We've got Republicans against state and church separation, we've got Republicans supporting the idea of mandatory Church attendance. Such people in politics threaten our liberty.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: No surprise in you analysis now I you would provide some facts to back up your opinions, I would be surprised.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

By the way Ed, as someone who is a constant demander of documentation, am I expected to document for you things that have been all over the news in the last week? Or well known history?

The Santorum statements about Church and State are well known and all over the net now. The statements by JFK about Church and State are well known because of the controversy over his Catholicism. The Arizona State Senator seeking to pass a law making church required has also been all over the news.

All their views are well known. Most people in common discussion aren't expected to document the obvious.

[Sandy]

The state senator in question, Sylvia Allen, was an appointee to the senate in Arizona originally, and was elected in 2008. She is a Mormon, which explains why she made that particular statement, though she hasn't actually introduced legislation to make church attendance mandatory. It was an offhand remark.

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

Perhaps if church attendance could be made compulsory (or maybe better, made financially attractive, say by giving significant tax writeoffs to those who have signed attendance slips from at least twice-a-week church attendance) we could get people off welfare by giving them switches and hiring them as vergers, whose job would be to go to churches during services and awaken physically (if not spiritually) anyone who seemed to be sleeping through the sermon.

[Jon Estes]

[Sandy]

[Ed Pettibone]

Sandy writes in part " It's a basic tenet of Mormonism that they are destined to rule the world by controlling the government of the US, that's in the teaching of their "prophet" Joseph Smith. But they're not the only ones who think that way. I've met some Christians who think Hitler's treatment of Jews was abominable, and yet who wouldn't have a problem with rounding up Muslims and putting them behind barbed wire. "

Ed" And I know Christians who believe that Mormons are Christians. Also, I recall well when with the full support of some Christians the U.S. Government did in fact round up American citizens of Japanese decent including some who where Christians and put them behind barbed wire. I am however not persuaded that either have any thing to do with the recent RARA's or resistance to them.

[Tim Bonney]

And I'm not convinced Ed that the RFRAs have anything to do with restoring religious freedom.

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

I've been thinking about your post Sandy and I'm not sure as to your reasoning. Maybe you can explain it to me.

If people are remembering the good old days when Protestant Christianity dominated things it wasn't conservative Protestant groups that were the ones that dominated. It was the mainline churches that used to be the dominant force in much of the US including states like Indiana.

A lot of these kinds of things are very regional. While the SBC is the largest non-Catholic denomination when divided by state it is only in the top four largest denominations by state in 27 of the 50 states according to http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html .

I know there are other conservative religious groups other than the SBC. But I'm not sure the supporters of the RFRA would want to go back to the day when it was mainliners who denominated Protestantism earlier in the century.

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

Well, Ed, first is the thought that for some reason, religious freedom needs to be "restored". Where did it go? I do not see that it has really gone anywhere. What I see is that the dominant influence of Christianity is waning in this country, the church attendance and membership numbers are down, and going lower, and as a result, the influence of the churches on the social order is not what it once was. That's not an indication that religious freedom is waning, but that's the perception, and that's my own observation. If you look at the intention behind some of these RFRA's being proposed or even passed, it seems to be that many of them are based on restoring Christian values to the social institutions of the community, and not necessarily restoring religious freedom in general. That, too, is an observation.

[Ed Pettibone]

[ET]

[Sandy]

[ET]

[ET]

[KeithE]