Far Reaching Implications with this Ruling

[Sandy]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/2 ... pal-church

For a long time, as The Episcopal Church has been disintegrating over doctrine and practice, the church hierarchy has refused to allow what they call "renegade" congregations to remain in the buildings that they constructed and paid for, largely with congregational funds. There are numerous cases where the vast majority of an Episcopal congregation has dissented from the doctrinal rulings of the national clergy, but have had to leave a building that they built and financed on the basis of "denominational polity." This ruling, which apparently combed through the church's policies and practices pretty thoroughly, turns that position around, and rules that individual dioceses are not required to be members of the national body in order to retain their property. There are some particulars in this case which may make it somewhat different from others, such as the fact that the South Carolina diocese was formed, and existed before the national body did, but I'm guessing there's a precedent here that will change the course of the controversy, and allow Episcopal congregations that have left the national body to retain, or regain, their property.

It will be interesting to see if this spreads to other denominations that are also hemorrhaging church members over gay ordination of clergy, which is what the beef in TEC is all about. Sometimes congregational polity gets sticky, but when you have a hierarchical church in which the clergy are determined to stubbornly force the membership to accept something they don't believe is Biblical, it creates a larger crisis. The exodus from The Episcopal Church has been substantial, and shows no signs of slowing down. This ruling will likely accelerate the separations, while, ironically, preserving the denomination itself.

[Dave Roberts]

Sandy, as I read this, it only protects churches where a whole diocese has changed its allegiance. It certainly does not protect churches outside SC, nor does it protect in other jurisdiction where the diocese has seized the property through court actions.

[Sandy]

Yes, Dave, I see it the same way. But up until this ruling, the attitude of the church officials has been, "You can't sue us because this isn't a legal issue, it's a church issue." That barrier seems to have come down, or at least been lowered somewhat. I believe more lawsuits, in different circumstances, will be filed.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

Oh, and short of stats to prove it, I think "disintegrating" is a bit strong. The TEC has lost membership over his theological differences but the church isn't falling part. Having a group or groups split off isn't quite disintegrating.

[Dave Roberts]

There has never been a ruling, to my knowledge, that did not endorse diocese ownership of all property. Churches leaving the diocese leave without their property, unless they are willing to purchase it from the diocese.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

By the way, what some Baptists and other congregationalists may not realize is that often the diocese or other denominational body put significant funding into the building of their local churches.

When I was in Indiana and a Methodist Church was destroyed by a storm the other churches in the conference give money to the rebuilding of the church. It isn't as clear cut as Baptist churches where only the local members paid for the building or property in many cases.

[Sandy]

A former Episcopalian priest turned Anglican, whose kids went to my school until he was called to an Anglican parish recently, told me that the church's membership losses are being described within as "significant and staggering." The congregation he served left TEC for an African-based Anglican group about two years ago, along with 2/3 of the churches, and about 4/5 of the total membership of their district.

TEC is unravelling.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Home-Pa ... lapse.aspx

[KeithE]

If they are unraveling, they are most likely being prophetic.

[Sandy]

Prophetic? Being "prophetic," in the Biblical definition of the term, is proclaiming the word of the LORD, revealed by the dynamic of the Holy Spirit, and measured by the canon of inspired scripture. It's a long way from that to an attempt by a group of clergy, mostly separated from people in the local body, to force their view of a particular social issue into the hierarchical order of the church. The latter is what is happening in the Episcopal Church. The prophetic voices are among those of the Episcopalian clergy who are calling their people back to the Bible and particularly back to the gospel of Jesus and away from the social gospel that initiated the decline in membership in the early 60's.

Of course, what constitutes a church "coming apart" or "unravelling" may be a matter of personal definition. The Episcopal Church has lost half the membership it held in 1960, with about 80% of its losses occurring in the past decade. Half of its ordained clergy have sought credentials in more conservative African and Asian Anglican fellowships, and are pastoring a growing number of churches affiliated with those groups. The national body is being forced to sell its headquarters building and downsize its staff, and an increasing number of the ordained clergy that are still in the church are not getting paid, and there are no churches to which they can be assigned. And what's happened in South Carolina is spreading to other places. I would call that "unravelling." This ruling will only encourage those who are seeking to reform and restore a church that many of its own clergy and members see as apostate.

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

The Word of God, especially when it is prophetic and dynamic, does indeed cause people to reject it. But it also is powerful, does not return void, and is a catalyst for repentance, and restoration that leads to holiness. Tradition and reason are human elements, and they are the reason many Episcopalians, who are hearing a prophetic word, are either attempting to reform their church, or leaving it for something new. I'll agree with adding experience to a prophetic word. I've experienced and observed the difference between a church's level of religious enthusiasm, and what happens to a group of Christians when the Holy Spirit joins their worship and passes through the room. It brings conviction of sin, and it causes life transformation. That is happening among the Episcopalians who are rejecting their church tradition and clergy rule and embracing something new that God is doing among them.

The article I cited from beliefnet references the Episcopal Church's financial and membership issues. The membership decline is a matter of record in the church's own figures.

That's not my definition of "prophetic," BTW. That's a paraphrase of a Biblical definition, as interpreted in a seminary class taught by no less of a personage than Dr. Kenneth Chafin.

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

I think that's part of the controversy, Timothy. A lot of Episcopalians, and Presbyterians and Lutherans as well, are seeing their churches move in a direction that is contrary to their own view of scripture and faith, and contrary to what their churches taught them to believe and how to discern truth. They are seeing tradition, and reason, as obstacles to the Spirit's presence in their midst. Some of it is coming from the Charismatic movement, as people are less inclined to denominational loyalty, some of it is coming via the influence of media, some of it is coming from their own past experience in their own church. It's been simmering under the surface for a long time, in the Episcopal Church it just needed a catalyst, and opening the door to the ordination of clergy who were openly gay was it. These churches are still well to the left of Baptists and other Evangelicals on the whole issue of gays, lesbians and the church, and are much more accepting overall, but not when it comes to clergy. That line is still there, and they see the breach of it as apostasy.

The Baptists, and the other Evangelicals who don't put much stock in church tradition make up more than half of all Christians in the US, and about three fourths of the membership of American Protestantism. That's a lot of influence, a lot of media, and it opens the door to a lot of interaction.

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]