Lady Gaga, Kanye West, clergy and other tax dodgers

[William Thornton]

[KeithE]

Refreshing good post from you William! What you are witnessing in your own field, is present within most fields - too many tax breaks for the rich and famous.

[Dave Roberts]

William, I agree with you that there should be a capon a housing allowance at no more than 200% of the average rental value of available housing in the community where the church is located (metropolitan statistical area, city, or county). The few who abuse this to live in palaces give everyone else who has ever lived in a parsonage or received a housing allowance a bad name. Defending pastoral lake houses and fairway homes is not the job of any denomination. It's like the current bill to keep the government afloat--1630 pages of bloated pork and changes in regulations. There needs to be some common sense in both.

[Dave Roberts]

I did a mental rolodex flip through all the parsonages and ministers' homes in my area. The largest I can think of is less than 2,500 square feet. None are located in gated communities or in highly restricted areas. Most are nice home, often located on or near church property. Many of them are very dated having been built in the 1950's or 1960's, and some need major repairs. I live next door to another Baptist pastor, and while it is a nice neighborhood, there are few houses here that would top a $200,000 price tag. My friend, Jim Sommerville, pastor of First Baptist in Richmond, chose to live modestly in the Fan District of Richmond in walking distance from his church.

Actually, the cure for this is to tax all ministerial income as an ordinary employee benefit and eliminate the Social Security fiction of self-employment. Then churches would pay Social Security on the minster's salary and ministers would pay their half of this. Housing would then be treated as ordinary income. Ministers pay more than their share by paying self-employment tax on housing and utilities as well as salary. The tax code needs to be cleaned up.

[William Thornton]

Dave, you are right with your observation that modest clergy homes are the rule and the Gatsbyesque clergy mansions are a small fraction; however, the latter get the print and we all suffer.

1. On the cap, the simpler route would be to take a flat amount ($50,000/yr would be roughly equivalent to a 4 star general's HA) and index it.
2. Proposals are offered to do the above and phase out the SE tax, the expensive half of our dual status. Imposing withholding on churches would be difficult, the most of them being very small.
3. Proposals are also made to require churches to file Form 990s so the public can see. This is DOA.

[Haruo]

Agree with all three of you, and it's refreshing to see William and Keith (and Dave) on the same side of an issue where I also stand.

But what about someone whose reading of the Bible tells them that the clergy are entitled to huge free mansions? What above his or her First Amendment rights?

[Dave Roberts]

I have no problem with a 4-star general's cap. It is, however, adjusted for the regional cost of living in certain areas, unless I am badly mistaken.

[William Thornton]

[Dave Roberts]

[Tim Bonney]

[Dave Roberts]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

This goes way beyond church staff. Phil Driscoll, Kenneth Copeland, ordained staff for some Goodwill/thrift store type ministries, and an endless list of parachurch, independent 501c3 organizations, religious educational institution employees (including coaches in some cases) etc. balloon this way beyond the local church.

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

[Tim Bonney]