Did mike Brown's Mother start the riot?

[Stephen Fox]

Quoting from NY Times:

During Mr. McCulloch’s announcement, Mr. Brown’s mother, Lesley McSpadden, and stepfather, Louis Head, stepped up onto a platform where protest leaders were standing.

“Defend himself from what!” Ms. McSpadden yelled, when Mr. McCulloch spoke of Officer Darren Wilson, the officer who shot Mr. Brown, defending himself.

She bowed her head and tears started streaming down her cheeks.

“Everybody wants me to be calm,” she said, her eyes covered with sunglasses. “You know what them bullets did to my son!” “They still don’t care!” she yelled. “They never going to care!” Ms. McSpadden then sank her head into her husband’s chest and bounced as she wept vigorously.

Mr. Head then turned and began to yell.

“Burn this down!” he repeatedly shouted, inserting an expletive.

The crowd then began to roar. Some rushed toward the fence near where the police were

[Stephen Fox]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/supp ... y-movement

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... /383157/2/

[KeithE]

Here is Stephen’s NY Times article he quoted from:


Personally I have no reason the believe the Grand Jury decision was wrong and trust that. I think Darren Wilson’s actions can be faulted - he could have shot less than the 12 shots he fired and perhaps Brown would be in jail today. But his spur of moment actions should not be grounds for further trial (that he had been attacked by Brown is pretty well established with DNA evidence).

I do think some means of making Afro-Americans more comfortable with the police should be undertaken as well as poverty/low wages addressed throughout the US which is the source of much anger/non-productivity of all races.

[Haruo]

Unfortunately, many young, clean-cut, well behaved, church-going Black males in this country are familiar with being pulled over for"driving while black". Even here in liberal Seattle, let alone in a segregated, formerly slaveowning metroplex like St. Louis. Sad but true.

[William Thornton]

For Stephen:

MLK, Jr. preached at southern seminary chapel in1961.

Did you know that?

Do you know what happened afterward?

No, Molly Worthen did not make ex cathedra statements about it.

[Stephen Fox]

I have known that for at least 20 years, In fact I announced it on statewide tv in Bama when I was on with a fundamentalist Executive Committee member of the national SBC, We were on panel in Montbomery in a call in show and I named the SBTS trustee from Bama who opposed King speaking in the chapel.

Worthen in the intro to Apostles of Reason makes clear she is not writing a tome about the secular politics of the religious right, but her chapter on the SBC focusing on inerrancy does mention the Birch and Recon conections of the world Pressler, Patterson and Helms trafficked in in the takeover.

BTW, as we've discussed before on this board, had he not been killed in Memphis, on April 5, 1968 Martin Luther King Jr was scheduled to be in Winder, Ga to bring attention to the 46 lynching in the canebrake

[William Thornton]

Very good. I'll buy you lunch...but you have to be here to get it.

[Dave Roberts]

There were two seminal events that occurred after the MLK sermon at SBTS. The first was an effort to have Dr. Henley Barnette, the Ethics Professor who hosted Dr. King, fired immediately. The effort could not get enough trustees to endorse it to force a vote.

One of the prime voices demanded that his church be refunded all it contributed to SBTS. Dr. Barnette took time to get the CP gifts of that pastor's church, compute what portion came to the SBC, then compute the part of that which came to SBTS, and he then refunded that church's contributions to them from his own salary. The total amount was less than $1.00. When that became known, the pastor hushed.

[KeithE]

[Stephen Fox]

Those were the two culprits, And about the same time regressives were given Southern hades for Dale Moody and a story appeared in Redbook about seminary students beliefs. So from the get go, inerrancy was wedded to reistance to Civil Rights.

I think the trustee from Montgomery was named White as he got mentioned in the Pulitzer trilogy by Taylor Branch.

http://books.google.com/books?id=BDujHZ ... ee&f=false

[Sandy]

I think there are some serious questions about the conduct of the county DA in the grand jury hearing. His post-verdict comments seem to be aimed at shutting down any further witness testimony should there be a federal case or a private lawsuit. That might backfire if, as I expect, there is a thorough investigation of the grand jury proceedings with the intention of looking for errors in order to get it overturned. It doesn't seem to be very wise, at this point, for either he, or the officer, to be putting out so much information, all of which will be under close scrutiny, especially for the almost certain civil suit that will be filed. He's not out of the woods yet. And it seems strange that his attorneys didn't advise him against a media interview with George Stephanopoulos. As long as there is potential pending legal action, and everything he says and the way he says it can be scrutinized, I'd think the wiser choice would be silence.

Regardless of this particular case and incident, there's a much greater problem in St. Louis, particularly in the suburbs of St. Louis County, that's been an underlying issue for a long time. Resolving racial issues is still beyond our culture and society, and it will be until we figure out how to build a level playing field.

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-david ... -black-man

[Stephen Fox]

Will have to think about this one for a while

http://religiondispatches.org/americas- ... -indicted/

[Stephen Fox]

[Sandy]

[Stephen Fox]

Sandy, sincerely appreciate your response. Butler makes some strong points for advanced seminar but I think she may be a little over the top. This is one time when my instinct is to draw back a little and hold some reservations about the the frankness of her response.

But I agree there are some deep and abiding systemic problems; its just most folks, even a lot of genuinely good people are tired of the whole conversation and don't have adequate moderators of goodwill to work through to a better place.

It's tricky for me cause I don't think the Bush family are racists, but I do think what Butler said about Gov Bush's Texas is true.

Succinctly I think the commenters I quoted above "nailed" it or as close as fairminded people can get.

Bottom line, roughly I think you and I have some common ground on the matter.

[KeithE]

I certainly have not read all of this but
are many of the Ferguson documents on how the grand jury reached its conclusion. (page down to documents).

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

Reading through the documents is difficult to do with all of the commentary in the media. But there are a lot of open questions regarding the procedures followed by the officer both before the encounter, and following it. The DA seems to be making too much of an effort to put this in the light of "routine" and yet also seems to be making a concerted effort to discredit the testimony of eyewitnesses. Whether the lack of following procedure, especially after the shooting, would have made a difference with the grand jury is probably open to question. But this case is just the flash point. The history of the relationship between St. Louis county legal authorities and municipalities, and its large African American population is one of inequality of treatment on racial grounds, and there's plenty of documented evidence in the record to back that up. It's a mistake to dismiss the reaction of protestors, both those who opted for a non-violent approach, and for those who vented frustration with violence. Granted, there were those in the crowd who used the opportunity to loot and gain advantage for themselves, and apparently some white supremacists infiltrated to do some damage as well. But this is a symptom of an ongoing social problem that has yet to be addressed and resolved, and it would be a big mistake to dismiss it as "playing the race card" or as just some welfare thugs.

Until there is a realization that the American experience is different for people of color, and that opportunity is not equal, in spite of how much we want to believe it is, or put on blinders to avoid seeing it, or just deny it, there will be continued events such as this, each one having the potential to create an even larger disruption of both the local community where it occurs, and across the board. It's turned out that the judge and jury in the Trayvon Martin case missed their guess on George Zimmerman, who has exhibited violence and rage in several incidents since then. These things are cumulative in their affect on the community.

Officer Wilson made a mistake in using the term "demon" to characterize Michael Brown as it related to the encounter leading to his death. That only inflamed the anger.

[KeithE]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

As has been reported, the officer in the Brown case wasn't aware that Brown had committed a crime. He encountered him walking down a street, and gave an order to move, something that I believe overstepped his authority as an officer. Essentially, the differences between the two cases are that Martin was walking through a white neighborhood, and encountered a thug playing policeman, while Brown was walking through an African American neighborhood and encountered an officer on patrol in a vehicle, alone, who belonged to a police force that has a history which has led to mistrust and fear in the community.

[KeithE]

[Sandy]