More Thoughts on a Living Wage

[ET]

[ET]

[KeithE]

[Bruce Gourley]

ET: Your rejection of capitalism (Adam Smith) and love affair with plutocracy is noted, as is your choice of materialism, profit and even greed over ethics, morality, humanity and Christian faith. Adam Smith warned that folks like you are the enemy of capitalism, and the cause of national ruin. Then again, today's plutocrats make Smith look like a socialist and capitalism like socialism.

[Sandy]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Sandy as a stand alone I really don't think "A worker is worthy of his wages" is real clear. Would you profess that all workers always do an honest days work. That phrase says nothing about what the wage is or should be. I sometimes believe the original scribe may have missed something there.

Or perhaps it says a worker is worth what ever he is paid.

[Dave Roberts]

The idea that companies could not afford an increase in the minimum wage. Yesterday, NPR did a piece on the number of companies who are buying back their own stock because they have the excess capital to do so. That appears to negate the argument that American business could not afford to share more with workers.

[Ed Pettibone]

[KeithE]

[linda]

Would someone care to factor in a situation the political rhetoric in our area is debating?

Here, "livable wage" is used to refer to what it would take for a single mom and two kids to keep their heads above water. Problem one is that there is no hint of a suggestion maybe women should be smarter than to be so willing to jump into that situation? Problem two is that we have an abundance of people who are quite vocal that they do not want either higher education or relocation for better jobs than minimum wage, but want a better standard of living than minimum wage.

So where would (or would you) factor in the personal lifestyle choices affecting wage?

Is it reasonable to assume that those choosing to rear families without marriage and a stable two parent family (here at least heralded as a choice) or without a decent education/skills or willingness to relocate would be choosing a lower standard of living? Or would you still see it as the responsibility of what businesses we do have here to support them better?

[KeithE]

[linda]

Whew--didn't think I did say we blame everyone with low wages for being there.

But this is a very relevant discussion to our town and to our family personally. Currently extended family is "fostering" a young woman who is legally an adult. She is 18, a mom, not willing to leave this town, not willing to get an education beyond high school IF it involves a work study program, and very angry that jobs available to her do not allow her to provide a middle class income for her and the baby. These young people do age out of the system and Christians in our area do all we can to help them get on their feet.

Part of that is teaching a different way of thinking than "poverty culture." On an individual basis we try to communicate the need for education or training or on the job acquired skills, that it may be necessary to leave the town you grow up in to get a job, that children do fare better in stable two parent homes, that the biggest or one of the biggest predictors of poverty is having children out of wedlock, etc. We try to teach setting an alarm clock and showing up on time, budgeting skills, food production and prep skills, home maintenance skills, personal grooming and demeanor on the job, etc.

We still run up against this slammed mental door that assumes everyone, no matter how poorly skilled or why they are poorly skilled, no matter if they are an employee that is valuable to the business or a slug hiding in the break room, deserves a living wage. Our larger region has recently had some strikes or threats of strikes for $15 per hour for minimum wage jobs.

We are active participants in trying to make things better, and seeking ways to convince both sides of some needed changes. Rather than living wage we are working to encourage employers to pay a fair wage for work done, and trying to encourage those on the low end of the economic scale to take more personal responsibility.

I'm not sure what you mean by crediting juniors who are successful. I personally come from a family of menial labor, my husband worked at that, and our kids worked their way through college. My grandparents included dusted out Okies, a prostitute who was wondrously saved and changed by Jesus, and southern sharecroppers. I personally find it a myth that anyone who is financially successful was born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

You all know much more than I do about economics and business. I'm open for suggestions.

[KeithE]

By "juniors" I meant those that inherit a lot of money or a good job with little effort.

What the country needs now is more jobs with higher salaries/pay so that demand will be increased.

The government must step in since private corporations are choosing to hoard profits and pay executives excessive money which they save a much higher percentage of than lower paid people do.

[Dave Roberts]

I often hear the "relocate where the jobs are" as the cure for low wages. I am aware of people for whom that is impossible due to needs to care for family members, because of having bought a home that they now cannot sell due to being underwater on mortgages with all their resources invested in the house and having no demand in the local area for homes. Also, I've heard the idea repeatedly that they can catch public transit. There is none where I live although Amtrak passes through our town several times a day. Greyhound service is limited to one northbound and two southbound connections per day. It's not so simple for relocating where the good jobs are.

[William Thornton]

[Ed Pettibone]

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

I have few problems and certainly don't think that a retired follower of Christ who is into ministry opportunities is a problem. I congratulate you and wish you well in both. Anything that gets me three thumbs up from Ed must be beyond my usual brilliant, witty, and insightful comments...think I'll take today off to celebrate.

Your casual reference to companies "hoarding cash" triggered my comment about job creation. Companies aren't the only entities that hoard cash. Come to think of it, I wonder why companies like Apple (a rather liberal outfit) would keep a lot of liquid assets? They lose potential profits by doing so...unless the climate for job creation and business expansion is unfavorable.

[KeithE]

[linda]

By relocate: We are a small town, rurally located and bit isolated. Small population. We have a good local college that regularly cranks out a bunch of registered nurses and teachers. Each year one or two of those can get work here. Each year a few will relocate to the nearest large town, about 70 miles away and those do well. A few really fly the coop and leave the state and those also do well. But those in the 22-25 year old bracket who refuse to leave town are competing against very large numbers of nurses and teachers for very few jobs. So we keep telling the youngsters entering college to plan to move when they graduate.

And it really isn't all that hard.

For that matter, it really wasn't all that difficult to move the 14 times we did Major garage sale, minor moving hassle. And in the drilling business, you always buy in a boom and sell in a bust. I guess there really isn't anything new under the sun.

We keep doing what we can--pushing saleable education, which may be more trade school than yet another grad of the local college, good grooming and work habits, good life skills, offering free child care to working single parents to help them get on their feet, teaching young two parent families life skills that may allow one of them to stay home and reduce the considerable cost of childcare, a church run health clinic, help with getting a reliable car when they graduate (which will more than likely be a rehabbed ugly reliable sedan),etc. We encourage some to contact Mike Rowe's foundation or consider some very high paying "dirty jobs." There are some really high paying jobs that cannot find qualified workers.

I don't know if what we saved during our working years will last until we die but I don't feel guilty for having saved for retirement or feel I owe a penny of it to any younger person. Could have just spent it as we made it, but now we have it to help pay our legitimate life expenses. If there should happen to be any left over for the kids or grandkids, I don't feel a bit guilty for helping them have it any easier, either.

Sometimes seems common sense with money is in short supply. Some don't want to share the pie with anyone, most complain about the size of the slice they got, and very few seem willing to pony up for the cost of making the pie or do the hard work. Lots of eaters, not enough bakers.

[ET]

[ET]

[Sandy]

[William Thornton]

I thought a living wage was a moral issue unrelated to the business climate and profitability.

[Dave Roberts]