A Dying Veteran addresses Bush & Cheney

[Haruo]

Mrs. Haruo posted this on my Facebook page, and while I don't agree with every aspect of it, I do think it's very well put and deserves to be read and pondered. The headline it's under contains the F word. Please ignore this. http://bit.ly/1njzKcy

[Dave Roberts]

That is a powerful indictment. None of us may like what the gentleman says, but we all need to hear it. It's not about politics. It's about the use of power and the corrupting influence of that power.

[KeithE]

I agree with every word and my heart goes out to the 100,000’s of American soldiers in similar situations. I also go even further to condemn the war in Afghanistan, Pakistan , Yemen and wherever else it has been drifted into.

Why? Please study these links thoroughly.

http://www.ae911truth.org

http://www.911truth.org

The truth may come forth if your mind is open as it did to me after reading The New Pearl Harbor in September 2004 and realized how much I had been duped by the media portrayals. Studying 30+ books and 100’s of papers (on both sides) have confirmed that the raw evidence is overwhelmingly against the “Official Conspiracy Theory” and that the 9/11 Commission Report was a sham- less spent on it than on Clinton/Monica tryst and delayed over a year.

The most likely truth is one of knowing an attack was coming (at least 12 countries intel services warned us several times - read here) but commandeering the situation for nefarious purposes. I by no means know all there is to know on 9/11; more investigation and questioning (with lie detector tests) could make the truth become clearer. But I do know without a shadow of a doubt that the three WTC buildings (WTC1,2,7) collapsed due to explosives placed at strategic spots in those buildings prior to 9/11/01 not solely due to the two planes into WTC1,2 - study first link above. That alone begs for more investigation.

Sorry but I must speak out. If ya’ll want me to remove this incendiary material I will.

[Haruo]

Don't remove it, Keith.

[William Thornton]

Makes me rather sad. All one needs to do to in any discussion with Keith is to say, "Yeah, he is the guy who thinks the WTC collapse was an inside job." Your cred collapses with that authentic inside job. You accomplish it all by yourself.

Since you are insistent on going down this road, why not be clear:

Who knew the attack was coming and "used it for nefarious purposes"?

What "nefarious purposes"?

Who placed explosives at "strategic spots" in the buildings?

You realize that your posture here frees me from any restraint in reminding readers of your extremist conspiracy beliefs.

Sorry to see all this, frankly, and I'd still love to see you and the others in Atlanta this week. Will probably avoid discussion of this stuff and stick to our common faith and love for Jesus.

[Sandy]

Don't remove it. It's certainly open to consideration, and the American people deserve to know the depths to which Dick Cheney and George W. Bush went in order to deceive Congress and capitalize on the Al Qaida attack in order to enrich themselves and their friends at taxpayer expense.

I've never really bought the 9-11 Truther theories, and I still think those attacks were just coincidental in the broader scheme of things. There is plenty of evidence, including a pile from reliable and documented sources, put together by individuals as diverse as Greg Palast and Rachel Maddow, that the Iraq war was the chief objective of the Bush administration from the very beginning, and they were planning on how to deceive Congress and lie to the American people in order to invade and occupy Iraq, and then profit from the invasion.

I find it appalling that so many Americans could not distinguish between Al Qaida, a terrorist organization based in Afghanistan, and a declared enemy of the Iraqi regime, with no presence there whatsoever, and Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi regime he led. The Iraq war put billions of taxpayer dollars into Cheney's pocket, and those of his close friends and business associates. The whole affair was the most corrupt, deceitful, and evil thing that the United States has ever done, making the corruption of the Nixon administration look like Sunday School in Georgia.

I'm still not convinced that 9-11 was engineered by Bush and Cheney, though they were certainly capable of that kind of thing. But this needs to be out there with everything else.

[Tim Bonney]

I know thread drift is pretty much the behavior de jure here. But I'd rather we get back to the obvious failings of Bush and Cheney on the Iraqi war. What about WMD? What about us being welcomed as liberators? What about creating a stable democracy through military? What????

William you might well say, "well here goes another bash Bush and Cheney thread." But VP Cheney has brought this on himself this time by acting as if he has real advice to give us on Iraq when he helped screw Iraq up so royally in the first place. Why on earth would any of us listen to him when he was so very very wrong before??

[William Thornton]

No prob with the bash Cheney stuff. Have at it.

[Tim Bonney]

No prob with the bash Cheney stuff. Have at it.

William, now I'm a bit surprised. How do you feel about the VP's role in the war?

[William Thornton]

No prob with the bash Cheney stuff. Have at it.

William, now I'm a bit surprised. How do you feel about the VP's role in the war?

It's not a matter I'm think worth arguing with you guys. If you want a topic where you can bash Cheney, let 'er rip. I only commented when Keith did his 911 truther stuff.

[KeithE]

Who knew the attack was coming and "used it for nefarious purposes”?

We could start with questioning the intel agencies who received all the advanced warnings and those that placed the high volume of put options just prior to 9/11 on United and American Airlines.

Did the Commission do that? No.

What "nefarious purposes”?

Could easily be any of the following motives (or combination thereof) from the new Bush administration. Could also be an Israeli or Saudi directed attack (or combination thereof). Did the Commission look into theses matters? Not that is published at least.

1. The Taliban (ruling party in Afghanistan from 1996-2001) refused to allow an oil pipeline to carry the rich oils fields near the Caspian Sea to the Indian Ocean which Enron had designs on. The Bush Admin (ruling party in the USA beginning in Jan 2001) gave the Taliban one last chance to change their minds else

'we bury you under a carpet of bombs."40 Naik said that he was told by Americans that "military action against Afghanistan would go ahead...before the snows started falling in Afghanistan, by the middle of October at the latest."

More complete history

2. The Taliban effectively ended the opium crop in Afghanistan beginning in Jan 2001. It picked back up when the US troops arrived.
Read more at Taliban's Eradication NYTimes article July 13, 2001.

Couple that with the long claimed story of CIA profiting from Afghanistan Opium production, this shows another possible motive.

3. Excuse to enact the already drafted Patriot Act which could be used to extend US hegemony over any area they could claim was “terroristic” and to surveil all email/internet usage.

4. To deflect attention from the $2.3T in debt that the DoD dismissed on Sep 10, 2001. Read also Rtd. Gen Stubblebine’s recognition that the Pentagon could not have been hit by a plane that large.

Who placed explosives at "strategic spots" in the buildings?

Evidence includes vans operating between August 23, 2001 until September 3 or 4, 2001 between 2:30-5:00a at WTC1 &2. In addition, independent reports of planned electrical outages on Sep 8-9, 2001 in WTC2. WTC7 was an obvious controlled demolition - not hit by a plane, came down at 5:21 pm on Sept 11/01 but announced by BBC and CNN in advance. Mysterious WTC 7 Collapse.

Any of this investigated in 9/11 Commission? Not that they revealed. And if they could put down these so-called counter stories, they would have relished to do so. Instead we have a onerous cover-up mainly of silence and media portrayals (in my book betrayals).

There much more that I could bring to this forum but don’t have time right now - I’m about ready to go to a cabin with my ex-minister G. Todd Wilson and friends - we just had our 50th Weatherly Heights BC Anniversary Celebration. It was wonderful.

[William Thornton]

My main question, let's just whittle them down to one, is WHO planted the explosives. If you don't know. Say you don't know.

[Neil Heath]

Mrs. Haruo posted this on my Facebook page, and while I don't agree with every aspect of it, I do think it's very well put and deserves to be read and pondered. The headline it's under contains the F word. Please ignore this. http://bit.ly/1njzKcy

Strangely enough, I had just read the story of this soldier and his letter on snopes.com before logging in here. It is true, and he didn't die as he had once planned. Here's the link: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/tomasyoung.asp

[Tim Bonney]

I'm glad to hear the soldier survived! I think the letter is still powerful. I think many politicians take it far too lightly when we go to war that men and women who are US citizens are going die on the battle field. When the reasons are for real national security issues it is understandable. When it is for oil, or for a President's vendetta against a Dictator, far less understandable. Bush and Cheney aren't the only administration to ever waste such lives. But you'd think we'd at least learn something from the mistakes.

[Mrs Haruo]

You don't have to go to Snopes- Frankly, as a veteran myself, I feel it a slap in the face you took that letter to Snopes because there are thousands of us that agree with that writer on many counts. I'm at the Vet Center or the VA hospital at least once a month. Veterans of Foreign Wars post too. Just sit down and talk to some of the folks coming through. If they will talk. I am the mother of one Persian Gulf vet and the auntie of several who had their feet on the ground in Iraq or Afghanistan or both. I have had enough Viet Nam combat vets break down sobbing when they find out I am a fellow veteran and they open up.

[Sandy]

Cheney's recent remarks are an attempt to re-write the record on Iraq. As far as bashing him goes, his record stands as it is, and his involvement in what is going down in history as the worst war debacle, and one of the biggest mistakes ever made by American politicians, is all too clear. There's no bashing a record like that. It is self-indicting and pathetically self serving.

[Neil Heath]

You don't have to go to Snopes- Frankly, as a veteran myself, I feel it a slap in the face you took that letter to Snopes because there are thousands of us that agree with that writer on many counts. I'm at the Vet Center or the VA hospital at least once a month. Veterans of Foreign Wars post too. Just sit down and talk to some of the folks coming through. If they will talk. I am the mother of one Persian Gulf vet and the auntie of several who had their feet on the ground in Iraq or Afghanistan or both. I have had enough Viet Nam combat vets break down sobbing when they find out I am a fellow veteran and they open up.

Don't be offended, Please, Mrs. H! I didn't check it out with snopes because of any doubt on my part. I got my weekly email update from snopes today and read their latest entries. It just happened that I saw it on snopes today first, before I ever saw it here. I shared the link to snopes because it added some additional information to the story of the letter.

[Mrs Haruo]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Neal. It's times like these that make me unplug the TV and only get my news on the radio. If it is bad news that there isn't much I can do about I can do with out the visual stimulation. Time to disconnect and bake cookies or take the sewing machine out for a spin. That letter really grabbed me by the heart, because I have close friends who are combat vets who have attempted suicide more than once. Know a few who were successful.

[Haruo]

Glad to hear he decided to keep eating.

[David Flick]

I agree with every word and my heart goes out to the 100,000’s of American soldiers in similar situations. I also go even further to condemn the war in Afghanistan, Pakistan , Yemen and wherever else it has been drifted into.

Why? Please study these links thoroughly.

1) http://www.ae911truth.org

2) http://www.911truth.org

The truth may come forth if your mind is open as it did to me after reading The New Pearl Harbor in September 2004 and realized how much I had been duped by the media portrayals. Studying 30+ books and 100’s of papers (on both sides) have confirmed that the raw evidence is overwhelmingly against the “Official Conspiracy Theory” and that the 3)9/11 Commission Report was a sham- less spent on it than on Clinton/Monica tryst and delayed over a year.

Keith, you falsely assume that anyone who reads the two 9/11 Truth websites (1 & 2 above) with an "open mind" will spontaneously, or even unconsciously, believe conspiracy theories in the exact same manner that you do. I spent far more time than I care to admit reading the multitude of links you have posted through the years. I have done so with a wide open mind and have completely failed to find any merit whatsoever in any of the posted materials. In my opinion, the materials you've posted are conspiracy nonsense. The notion that the 9/11 Commission Report is a "571-page Lie" is absolute nonsense - (as David Ray Griffin declared in #3 above).

Having read you extensively, I have a curious question. Maybe I should couch it as being curious about which theory to which you subscribed. According to a Wikipedia article, the most prominent conspiracy theories can be broadly divided into two main forms ("Types"). One type is "LIHOP," which describes government authorities in high places as letting 9/11 happen on purpose. The other type is "MIHOP," which describes government authorities in high places as making 9/11 happen on purpose. My question is, which type are you? Are you a LIHOPer? Or are you a MIHOPer? Just curious...

The most likely truth is one of knowing an attack was coming (at least 12 countries intel services warned us several times - read here) but commandeering the situation for nefarious purposes. I by no means know all there is to know on 9/11; more investigation and questioning (with lie detector tests) could make the truth become clearer. But I do know without a shadow of a doubt that the three WTC buildings (WTC1,2,7) collapsed due to explosives placed at strategic spots in those buildings prior to 9/11/01 not solely due to the two planes into WTC1,2 - study first link above. That alone begs for more investigation.

Sorry but I must speak out. If ya’ll want me to remove this incendiary material I will.

[KeithE]

My main question, let's just whittle them down to one, is WHO planted the explosives. If you don't know. Say you don't know.

Sure just whittle it down to one when there are 100’s of unanswered questions and many leads not followed to their conclusions.

To boot I did discuss the leads about who planted the explosives although I do not know who did it. But let me be clear, any thinking person who makes him/herself aware of the known facts, videos, and has common sense has to believe explosives were involved (READ http://www.ae911truth.org - look down the right column to list of evidences after the picture of WTC7).

Ask yourself how does this happen:

all of a sudden (42 minutes after the airplanes crashed into the building) and after the tower had cooled down to black smoke emanating from the tower??

Gravity and residual fires do not cause whole steel beams being ejected outward 600 feet, and even upward. There was chemical analysis of the dust that coated the streets around the WTC for 6 blocks that showed red/gray chips of thematic material used in advanced bombs. WTC 7 was not hit by any plane but came down at 5:21pm that day (not discussed in the 9/11 Commission Report). Many testimonies of multiple explosions near the time of collapse and some testimonies before the collapse in the basement. There is very much more evidence at [url]ae911truth.org[/url]

Recognize it takes weeks to wire a building for demolition. Al Qaeda may have done it but that is unlikely in my view; the Security Company in charge of the WTC would certainly have come under great scrutiny if that had been the case - hint the security company was owned by Marvin Bush - W’s brother).

I do not know who specifically was involved in planting the explosives, but they were planted. Real investigative work remains to be done by duly authorized folks.

I’ll repeat some leads I gave about who planted the explosives (which William seems obvious to) here:

Who placed explosives at "strategic spots" in the buildings?

Evidence includes vans operating between August 23, 2001 until September 3 or 4, 2001 between 2:30-5:00a at WTC1 &2. In addition, independent reports of planned electrical outages on Sep 8-9, 2001 in WTC2. WTC7 was an obvious controlled demolition - not hit by a plane, came down at 5:21 pm on Sept 11/01 but announced by BBC and CNN in advance. Mysterious WTC 7 Collapse.

This time read them and interact with the information I link. Susan Lindnauer, Scott Forbes, Willie Rodriquez, Marvin Bush, and numerous others who testified to hearing explosions were not interviewed by the 9/11 Commission because it was a whitewash engineered by WH insider Phillip Zelikow.

Read, study, meaningful comment or I will ignore you. William.

[Tim Bonney]

Keith

I'd honestly have better luck convincing everyone here to be a Methodist than you will on the 911 stuff. Sorry, but that's how it is. You might as well move on friend.

[Mrs Haruo]

Thread hijack Rather than dig up old conspiracy theories how about dropping off some kids clothes or a box of groceries off at your local Vet Center, VFW, Disabled American Veterans post or put in some time helping a struggling military family who are barely managing to make ends meet while a member is deployed, or being patched up in a Veteran's hospital?

[KeithE]

I agree with every word and my heart goes out to the 100,000’s of American soldiers in similar situations. I also go even further to condemn the war in Afghanistan, Pakistan , Yemen and wherever else it has been drifted into.

Why? Please study these links thoroughly.

1) http://www.ae911truth.org

2) http://www.911truth.org

The truth may come forth if your mind is open as it did to me after reading The New Pearl Harbor in September 2004 and realized how much I had been duped by the media portrayals. Studying 30+ books and 100’s of papers (on both sides) have confirmed that the raw evidence is overwhelmingly against the “Official Conspiracy Theory” and that the 3)9/11 Commission Report was a sham- less spent on it than on Clinton/Monica tryst and delayed over a year.

Keith, you falsely assume that anyone who reads the two 9/11 Truth websites (1 & 2 above) with an "open mind" will spontaneously, or even unconsciously, believe conspiracy theories in the exact same manner that you do. I spent far more time than I care to admit reading the multitude of links you have posted through the years. I have done so with a wide open mind and have completely failed to find any merit whatsoever in any of the posted materials. In my opinion, the materials you've posted are conspiracy nonsense. The notion that the 9/11 Commission Report is a "571-page Lie" is absolute nonsense - (as David Ray Griffin declared in #3 above).

Having read you extensively, I have a curious question. Maybe I should couch it as being curious about which theory to which you subscribed. According to a Wikipedia article, the most prominent conspiracy theories can be broadly divided into two main forms ("Types"). One type is "LIHOP," which describes government authorities in high places as letting 9/11 happen on purpose. The other type is "MIHOP," which describes government authorities in high places as making 9/11 happen on purpose. My question is, which type are you? Are you a LIHOPer? Or are you a MIHOPer? Just curious...

The most likely truth is one of knowing an attack was coming (at least 12 countries intel services warned us several times - read here) but commandeering the situation for nefarious purposes. I by no means know all there is to know on 9/11; more investigation and questioning (with lie detector tests) could make the truth become clearer. But I do know without a shadow of a doubt that the three WTC buildings (WTC1,2,7) collapsed due to explosives placed at strategic spots in those buildings prior to 9/11/01 not solely due to the two planes into WTC1,2 - study first link above. That alone begs for more investigation.

Sorry but I must speak out. If ya’ll want me to remove this incendiary material I will.

I only said the truth “may” come out if you studied with an open mind. I recognize the cognitive dissonance involved in such a change in viewpoint.

I do think that if one studies the narrow matter of whether or not explosives brought down the WTC 1 2 and 7, one should see that planes, fuel fires, and gravity alone cannot account for the observations. But again admitting to be wrong is not easy.

Thanks for your question about LIHOP (let it happen on purpose) or MIHOP (make it happen on purpose). I’ll repeat what I said above where my research has led me:

The most likely truth is one of knowing an attack was coming (at least 12 countries intel services warned us several times - read here) but commandeering the situation for nefarious purposes. I by no means know all there is to know on 9/11; more investigation and questioning (with lie detector tests) could make the truth become clearer. But I do know without a shadow of a doubt that the three WTC buildings (WTC1,2,7) collapsed due to explosives placed at strategic spots in those buildings prior to 9/11/01 not solely due to the two planes into WTC1,2 - study first link above. That alone begs for more investigation.

If you follow that logic it makes me somewhere between a LIHOP and a MIHOP. I am convinced that Al Qaeda planned some big event in NYC (quite possibly WTC 1& 2) on the basis of the publicly released details of the 12 countries forewarning of attack. Richard Clarke did his best to convince the President that an attack was eminent in the August 6, 2001 PDB. But I believe for reasons too detailed to spend time and effort herein that the Pentagon and the Pennsylvanian shoot down (and it was a shoot down) were not part of the Al Qeada plan. The purported 19 hijackers were not even on the any of the 4 flight manifests and 6 of them have identified themselves and are alive today - read this please. I also believe it high unlikely any of the these Al Qaeda hijackers (most were Saudis) were capable of flying a 7x7 into the WTC towers. It took some measures (perhaps remotely piloted planes with mature Systems Planning Corporation technology) undertaken by nefarious folks in our MIC and/or Intel and/or FBI and/or PNAC and/or Israel and/or Saudi Arabia (only a real investigation will undercover who) to “make it happen” - thus more a MIHOP operation as I said above by

commandeering the situation for nefarious purposes.

But I do recognize that Al Qaeda did plan an “big event” in NYC - that was made clear in the forewarnings.

I’m not going to continue arguing this with BL people who show little interest other than to declare me “incredible” and offering no DATA or facts just saying ‘well that’s a conspiracy theory I do not agree with CTs'. But my hope is that I will give some doubt into the “Official Conspiracy Theory”. Several people have supported me via PMs in the past - wish they would come forward.

Given the definition of a conspiracy ("an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons") we can all agree - it was a conspiracy - we just do not agree on who was involved.

[KeithE]

Keith

I'd honestly have better luck convincing everyone here to be a Methodist than you will on the 911 stuff. Sorry, but that's how it is. You might as well move on friend.

Well I’ll take you advice for the time being. I certainly know I will not convince everyone here at BL.

BTW, this morning began with a 5:41 am call from my sister to say her husband had died. We were with good friends at a cabin in extreme NW GA. Herb’s death was expected (Alzheimer’s, with hospice care the last 2 weeks and morphine every 4 hours since last Friday).

I will not be going to any CBF events instead driving to be with my sister Carol in Plant City FL on Wednesday with graveside service Saturday.

Sorry Neil and Stephen and William, I would have enjoyed talking with you.