Shameless climate McCarthyism

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Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby William Thornton » Thu May 15, 2014 6:08 am

Climate science defector forced to resign by alarmist fatwa

OK, filter out the incendiary headline and keep the rest. In the world of vocational GW True Believers there is a price for heresy.
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby Sandy » Thu May 15, 2014 7:49 am

Tabloid fantasy.
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby KeithE » Thu May 15, 2014 7:50 am

William Thornton wrote:Climate science defector forced to resign by alarmist fatwa

OK, filter out the incendiary headline and keep the rest. In the world of vocational GW True Believers there is a price for heresy.


First of all Bengtsson is not a climate scientist. He was a weather man.

Second of all, there is a sparsity of specific charges against his former colleagues; - general claims of "pressure", colleagues withdrawing support or joint authorship. His angst may be entirely self-engendered and his resolve very weak if he is ready to drop out of the GWPF after just ten days.

From Delingpole’s article quoting Bengtsson:
I have been put under such an enormous group pressure in recent days from all over the world that has become virtually unbearable to me. If this is going to continue I will be unable to conduct my normal work and will even start to worry about my health and safety. I see therefore no other way out therefore than resigning from GWPF. I had not expecting such an enormous world-wide pressure put at me from a community that I have been close to all my active life. Colleagues are withdrawing their support, other colleagues are withdrawing from joint authorship etc. I see no limit and end to what will happen.


Has he been subject to multiple independent inquiry boards as Phil Jones and Michael Mann have been? No. Has his email been hacked and private words sent around the world? No. Has he been questioned endlessly by climate-novice politicians in Congress (as in McCarthyism) or European equivalent like James Hansen has? No. Certainly any reporter like Delingpole would have brought a solid and detailed case for what William calls “McCarthyism” and he calls “Fatwa” if such as case could be made. It was not.

I agree with this comment to Delingpole’s article.
Professor Bengtsson is 79 years old. His achievements and his scientific reputation cannot be sullied at this late stage in his career. He should simply have made their silly political protests public and laughed them off.


I’ll let William’s headline ("Shameless Climate McCarthyism") and Delingpole’s claim (that Bengtsson was “forced to resign by alarmist Fatwa”) stand as examples of overreach.
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby Ed Pettibone » Thu May 15, 2014 9:21 am

Ed; And Keith by what logic do you dispute the validity of meteorology as a science?

me·te·o·rol·o·gy
noun \ˌmē-tē-ə-ˈrä-lə-jē\

: a science that deals with the atmosphere and with weather
Full Definition of METEOROLOGY
1
: a science that deals with the atmosphere and its phenomena and especially with weather and weather forecasting
2
: the atmospheric phenomena and weather of a region
— me·te·o·ro·log·ic or me·te·o·ro·log·i·cal adjective
— me·te·o·ro·log·i·cal·ly adverb
— me·te·o·rol·o·gist
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu May 15, 2014 10:15 am

Meteorology is much more about the present and immediate future than it is about the long-term climate trends. Meteorological observations supply data to the study of the climate, but the study of weather and the study of climate are not the same.
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby William Thornton » Thu May 15, 2014 10:37 am

KeithE wrote: I’ll let William’s headline ("Shameless Climate McCarthyism") and Delingpole’s claim (that Bengtsson was “forced to resign by alarmist Fatwa”) stand as examples of overreach.


A careful reader would note that I originated neither of those descriptions.
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby KeithE » Thu May 15, 2014 10:55 am

Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed; And Keith by what logic do you dispute the validity of meteorology as a science?

me·te·o·rol·o·gy
noun \ˌmē-tē-ə-ˈrä-lə-jē\

: a science that deals with the atmosphere and with weather
Full Definition of METEOROLOGY
1
: a science that deals with the atmosphere and its phenomena and especially with weather and weather forecasting
2
: the atmospheric phenomena and weather of a region
— me·te·o·ro·log·ic or me·te·o·ro·log·i·cal adjective
— me·te·o·ro·log·i·cal·ly adverb
— me·te·o·rol·o·gist


I'm not disputing that meteorology is a science. I am disputing what the article title said - that Bengtsson was/is a "climate science defector" . He was a meteorologist commonly known as a weatherman.

Dave has it right about the difference.
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby KeithE » Thu May 15, 2014 11:09 am

William Thornton wrote:
KeithE wrote: I’ll let William’s headline ("Shameless Climate McCarthyism") and Delingpole’s claim (that Bengtsson was “forced to resign by alarmist Fatwa”) stand as examples of overreach.


A careful reader would note that I originated neither of those descriptions.



A careful reader will note that Berngtsson brought up McCarthy - claiming his 10 days of supposed ostracism reminded him of McCarthyism (being called a communist and brought up to trial in Congress with possible jail time). Talk about paranoia.

A really careful reader will note William's amplification of "McCarthyism" to "Shameless Climate McCarthyism" thus piling onto Bengtsson's accusation and paranoia.

Delingpole brought up Fatwa known in the US as often punishable by death (e.g. Salman Rushdie).
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby Timothy Bonney » Thu May 15, 2014 11:10 am

Breitbart as the source, need I say more? How about shameless right wing spin?
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby Ed Pettibone » Thu May 15, 2014 11:36 am

Dave Roberts wrote:Meteorology is much more about the present and immediate future than it is about the long-term climate trends. Meteorological observations supply data to the study of the climate, but the study of weather and the study of climate are not the same.


Ed; So Dave, are you suggesting as Keith seems to do that climatology is a science and that Meteorology is not?

And Keith, I see it as rather arrogant attempt on your part to demean Bengtsson 's education and reputation in academia by resorting to casting him a common class that is pretty much a carry over from a bygone era, when "weather men" and "latter weather girls" where folk who simply read the reports of Meteorologist on the radio or TV. Today there are many more Meteorologist working in Industry, Higher Education and Government than in TV Stations

It looks from here that including Tim Bonney the three of you sort of make the Case for Bengtsson. :wink:
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby Timothy Bonney » Thu May 15, 2014 11:52 am

I have said nothing about Bengtsson, only about the suspect nature of the source. This is the stuff of Rush Limbaugh and the Drudge Report. You know what they are going to say facts or no facts about almost anything.
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby KeithE » Thu May 15, 2014 11:57 am

Ed Pettibone wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:Meteorology is much more about the present and immediate future than it is about the long-term climate trends. Meteorological observations supply data to the study of the climate, but the study of weather and the study of climate are not the same.


Ed; So Dave, are you suggesting as Keith seems to do that climatology is a science and that Meteorology is not?

And Keith, I see it as rather arrogant attempt on your part to demean Bengtsson 's education and reputation in academia by resorting to casting him a common class that is pretty much a carry over from a bygone era, when "weather men" and "latter weather girls" where folk who simply read the reports of Meteorologist on the radio or TV. Today there are many more Meteorologist working in Industry, Higher Education and Government than in TV Stations

It looks from here that including Tim Bonney the three of you sort of make the Case for Bengtsson. :wink:


No castigation or demeaning of Bengtsson's long term profession is intended (meteorology is a science and weathermen, weatherwoman are scientists). Just that he is not and never was a climatologist as Delingpole claimed.
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby Timothy Bonney » Thu May 15, 2014 12:13 pm

KeithE wrote:No castigation or demeaning of Bengtsson's long term profession is intended (meteorology is a science and weathermen, weatherwoman are scientists). Just that he is not and never was a climatologist as Delingpole claimed.


Precisely. And the jiggering of those kind of facts is how you spin an article and spin the facts to say something that really didn't happen.

Apparently politicians, the Tea Party, and even clergy seem to know more about climatology than climatologists. :lol:
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu May 15, 2014 12:21 pm

KeithE wrote:
Ed Pettibone wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:Meteorology is much more about the present and immediate future than it is about the long-term climate trends. Meteorological observations supply data to the study of the climate, but the study of weather and the study of climate are not the same.


Ed; So Dave, are you suggesting as Keith seems to do that climatology is a science and that Meteorology is not?

And Keith, I see it as rather arrogant attempt on your part to demean Bengtsson 's education and reputation in academia by resorting to casting him a common class that is pretty much a carry over from a bygone era, when "weather men" and "latter weather girls" where folk who simply read the reports of Meteorologist on the radio or TV. Today there are many more Meteorologist working in Industry, Higher Education and Government than in TV Stations

It looks from here that including Tim Bonney the three of you sort of make the Case for Bengtsson. :wink:


No castigation or demeaning of Bengtsson's long term profession is intended (meteorology is a science and weathermen, weatherwoman are scientists). Just that he is not and never was a climatologist as Delingpole claimed.


That is precisely the point I am making. I see both as scientific disciplines--just not identical disciplines.
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby William Thornton » Thu May 15, 2014 2:17 pm

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:
KeithE wrote: I’ll let William’s headline ("Shameless Climate McCarthyism") and Delingpole’s claim (that Bengtsson was “forced to resign by alarmist Fatwa”) stand as examples of overreach.


A careful reader would note that I originated neither of those descriptions.



A careful reader will note that Berngtsson brought up McCarthy - claiming his 10 days of supposed ostracism reminded him of McCarthyism (being called a communist and brought up to trial in Congress with possible jail time). Talk about paranoia.

A really careful reader will note William's amplification of "McCarthyism" to "Shameless Climate McCarthyism" thus piling onto Bengtsson's accusation and paranoia.

Delingpole brought up Fatwa known in the US as often punishable by death (e.g. Salman Rushdie).


All of the terms were lifted from accounts of the matter. I originated none.
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Re: Shameless climate McCarthyism

Postby David Flick » Mon May 19, 2014 3:18 am

.
.

William Thornton wrote:Climate science defector forced to resign by alarmist fatwa

OK, filter out the incendiary headline and keep the rest. In the world of vocational GW True Believers there is a price for heresy.


.
.
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