"Saving the planet"....what's your experience?

[ET]

I thought I'd spin off a thread here from my "Green Technology Pollutes the Planet" thread. That thread was more geared to argue that in many cases the "solutions" being proposed to "save the planet" have hidden costs or simply move those costs from one point in the chain (such as tailpipe emissions) to another part (such as power plant emissions a couple of states as is often the case for California).

But whether one is a "right wing extremist" or a "raging lefty", we've probably all tried various products or techniques that are around and have been proposed as "solutions" for saving the planet -- maybe because we are forced to (as will eventually be the case with CFL bulbs) or just trying something to save money. What have been the results? Are you pleased with your choice? What considerations did you take into account to make the choice?

Keith and I have discussed the Prius a few times. He is pleased with it. I test drove a Prius-C with my daughter when she bought a car. My daughter loved the Prius-C, but the price premium didn't make it worth it over a Corolla that was about $5000 less even if it was rated 50 mpg in the city.

Do folks know that Best Buy and other places will recycle old computers, other electronics, power cables, audio/video cables, laptop and rechargeable batteries, etc? A lot of such stuff I just used to toss in the garbage, but now I've got a box to collect it and take to Best Buy every so often.

How are those CFL bulbs working out for you? I've found the 60W equivalents have become decent, but I prefer the "bright" version over the "soft white". I've also found that the higher wattage bulbs (100W in particular) doesn't have near the lifespan of the 60W versions. I've had a couple of the 60W versions go 7 years in places like the bathroom where it's not turned on for hours at a time. Nor have I had any way to measure that these things have saved me any significant amount of money. They may have, but it's negligible in my opinion. I've also found that the CFL bulbs usually don't work well in garage door openers due to the vibration. I've got a "tough duty" CFL in one of my openers now and have dated it to see how long it lasts compared to a good old rough-duty "Edison".

I'm toying with the idea of getting at least one of the new , which appears to solve many of the problems with the CFLs. Pricey at $13/bulb for the 60W equivalent, but if it really does turn on instantly and last 25 years, a very slow transition to them may be warranted.

NOTE for anyone that ever goes shopping and is tempted to try LED light bulbs: PAY CLOSE ATTENTION to the number of lumens!!!! An "Edison bulb" puts out about 800 lumens at 60W.....if you look at some of these LED bulbs, many, if not most, of them that are priced less than $30 put out less than 100 lumens.

Just thought I'd throw something out that doesn't have to become a big public policy debate. I've enjoyed hearing Keith's experiences with his Prius....his most recent episode regarding the impact of a different tire is the kind of thing that helps us all if we are considering such purchases. While I'm not a particular fan of the term "creation care", consider this a discussion of things we may do or try to do and what works and what does not in trying to not be wasteful with resources.

And, hey, has anyone had one of the new "smart meters" installed at their home? MLGW here in Memphis is heading that way, but it may be some time before we get one at our house. Wondering if it's really a benefit to the consumer or if it's like a computer or smartphone.....new version comes out with all sorts of new features, but few of them are ever used.

P.S. Side note not really related to this topic except for the recycling issue...be aware that Microsoft will end support for Windows XP this April, so no more security patches. I was reminded of this a couple of days ago when an article popped up on it. I've got two old laptops (7yrs) and two desktops (5-7 yrs) still running XP. I think I can upgrade one of them to Win7, but the others will either have to be retired or just keep going on and be exposed to new threats.

[Sandy]

Our trash collection company will not take electronic items. I suppose you could hide them in the regular trash can, but if you get caught doing that, there's a fine. I have two computers and a bag full of cell phones and cords that I need to dispose of. Perhaps I will take them to Best Buy and give it a try. At our previous residence, you could put that stuff in the recycle bin.

We just equipped our gymnasium with a set of LED lights, as opposed to the old mercury vapor fixtures. It has improved the brightness considerably, eliminated "dark spots" on the court, there is no annoying "buzz" from the starters, and we saw a significant drop in our electric bill, along with the 20% rebate we got from the electric company for installing them. I haven't had any problem with the CFL bulbs lasting for a long time, though I use the 65 watt bulbs. I can't really tell that they've generated any savings as far as the electric bill goes, but I like the light they produce.

We've recycled paper, plastics and glass for a long, long time. In Texas, it was an opportunity offered by the trash collection company and the guys who worked our route commented several times on the fact that we always seemed to have a lot more to recycle than our neighbors. Up here, recycling has requirements and not complying has fines. But your trash bill is directly related to the quantity of items you recycle, so our bin is the same size as our trash dumpster and we make sure it is full each week. We save about $40 a month by piling the recycling high.

[Neil Heath]

We have CFL's (60 watt equivalent) in our outside lights, which burn from before dusk to after dawn every night. That's probably 9-10 hours in the summer, longer in winter. And others that run all day inside some darker areas of the house. They've been in use for many months, perhaps more than a year, though I haven't kept a record. I did have one that went out in just a few months, so I assume it was defective. I also like the brighter bulbs, the middle one, not the soft white or the brightest one.

On recycling, I've taken all sorts of stuff to Best Buy (they also take CD's and DVD's). Never had them refuse anything I took.

As for replacing XP, you should look at a Linux OS such as Ubuntu or Mint. They are very user friendly now and require less computing power than Windows, so an XP machine will do fine with them. They run Linux versions of many programs you already use, and will run most Windows programs with an emulator like Wine installed.

[ET]

[ET]

[ET]

[Dave Roberts]

ET, I have to laugh at your choice of title. None of us can "save the planet." I have been replacing indescant bulbs with CFL's and more recently LED's in our most used fixtures. I doubt that I can "save the planet," but I may save a few watts and a few dollars. I drive a Rav-4 that averages 30 mpg. Lower flow shower heads have reduced some of our consumption, but not all. Combining trips and seeking to prioritize purchases of items that use lesser amounts of electricity are part of our efforts. I wish we had natural gas in our town, but the political influence of two oil dealers has kept the pipeline (within 3 miles) from being tapped. That would provide both cleaner energy and reduced pollution.

One interesting sidelight, there was an announcement this week that a new company will be building in our county to create solar-voltaic equipment including panels. If the price continues to fall, I will have to consider placing some panels on the top of our sunroom.

[ET]

Yeah, Dave, the title is a bit tongue-in-cheek, which is why I put it in quotes. Just a bit of tweaking of some of the more passionate and wacky enviros. Not sure if I can do it, but I'd change the title to just "Green tech, what's your experience?" if more folks might contribute.

But honestly, even with it's somewhat sarcastic title, it was still a shot at a practical discussion of anyone's experience with any so-called "green" technology, whether believer or skeptic that man is making some unholy contribution to warm the planet. That's why I ask Keith about his LED lights. I've toyed with the idea of buying some LEDs and starting to make the conversion, but the cost and variability in the options are hurdles for me at the moment, as I noted above.

I did also find that buying CFLs for motion lights (90W equiv) is not a good idea. They turn off and on too much, and that's not good for them. The ones I bought didn't last long. Noticed someone I visited had put some LEDs in their motion lights, but I think those things may run $30 or so. I think the biggest attraction of LEDs may not be the electricity savings, but the probability that once you install one somewhere, you may not have to ever change it again unless you live in the house 20+ years, and even then you may only have to change it one more time before you go on to your reward.

Oh, by the way Dave, if you do start considering solar panels, I ran across an article a few months back that was based on the premise that most panels are put on the wrong side of the house - the south side. Based on energy usage, the article proposed that most of them should face west, but the big assumption in that piece seemed to be no one was home during the day and that most folks would find the solar power more beneficial if their panels were facing west after getting home from work.

[Dave Roberts]

ET, I also have an LED, solar powered yard light in one area in my back yard. It is motion sensitive, so it turns on when there is activity in front of the sensor. So far, I am impressed with the way it works. Also, CFL floodlights have to warm up in winter, so the light is slow to arrive.

[KeithE]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Keith for future reference Teak Wood Mats over carpet leave no marks, I have been using one since we moved here nearly 6 years ago. It rolls up for storage or moving Wood slats on a felt backing.

[KeithE]

[ET]

[ET]

[ET]

Picked up two 60W equiv LED bulbs today at Walmart for $4.50....they have some on clearance....800 lumens....will try them out when a bulb somewhere needs to be replaced. Normal prices was $8.50 or so. Guess they aren't selling all that well. Understandably so with such a high price.

I've got a desk light with an incandescent in it. The fixture is rated at 40W MAX. I just put one of the "60W"/800 lumens LEDs in the fixture...SWEET!!!! LET THERE BE LIGHT! Greatly reduced heat, too.

[ET]

If any of you folks want to give LED bulbs a try, you might want to order online from Walmart. One version is on sale ($3.96 on sale, $5.88 reg) at the moment (week of April 6th, 2015). This one would be a straight swap for a 60W incandescent of equivalent CFL bulb. I'm going to buy 4 or 5 and give them a try. . NOT dimmable, however.

[KeithE]

[Haruo]

I am generally opposed to Walmart and will gladly exercise my Religious Freedom by paying a buck or two more to get the same thing from a local retailer. Thus far I have only been inside an actual Walmart store once in my life, and have never purchased from them. However, in Mexico I did inadvertently shop once at a store of a different name that turned out to be owned by Walmart.

[KeithE]

[ET]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. There are reasons to not purchase LEDs. They are still pricey, mainly. If these hadn't been on sale and at what I considered an agreeable price point, I wouldn't have bought them. I've got some 90W motion/flood lights that put out some 1700 or so lumens. You can get them for 6-$8 each. The LED equivalent replacement is about $22 at the moment. Given that I've only swapped out the lights in the fixtures once in the 8 years we've been in our house, paying four times the cost for what amounts to an almost negligible savings over the course of 6, 7 or 8 years doesn't make much sense. I'd much rather get the ROI on a round of golf with the $30 in savings than sink it into lights and just the costs of the incandescents be considered a "sunk costs"/"normal operating expense".

We've got 3 ceiling fans and 3 bathroom fixtures that use (23 in all). The LED version? . Same goes for the chandelier bulbs I mentioned previously. I'm not thrilled with changing the things and getting up on a ladder to do them, but when it's a matter of or , It's quite a stretch to make the argument that LEDs are the way to go, even if the incandescents are being swapped out once or twice a year. (Of course, if I ever fall off the ladder changing them, the LEDs at $130-150 for the entire fixture would more than pay for themselves in "risk avoidance". )

Like you, I think LEDs will eventually take over, but it's still a hard sell. I can work out the savings on a spreadsheet, but the fact of the matter is that the savings are spread out over a number of years and may largely go unnoticed. I doubt even after adopting LEDs many people will ever have a conversation like, "wow, we're saving so much money on our utility bill" or "have you noticed we're not spending much money buying light bulbs anymore since we switched to LEDs".

I would argue that whatever imaginary (as in 'never realized') savings in CO2 and lighting costs will more than be offset by whatever other gadgets come along. Probably won't be long before the run-of-the-mill American household will have a 40-50" TV in every bedroom. Just like CAFE standards made it less expensive to drive more and didn't reduce overall gas consumption, so will LEDs allow folks to xfer their electricity consumption to power other gadgets while not "saving" any CO2 overall.

[ET]

[KeithE]