ObamaCare Costs

[Haruo]

William, is there any taxation that you do not view as theft, and if there is, how if at all do think the government ought to enforce it?

[Haruo]

Y'ever wonder how come so few well-off young Christians (or older ones) of an inerrantish way with scripture don't seem to take seriously the idea that Jesus may be speaking to them in Matthew 19:21?

[KeithE]

[David Flick]

[William Thornton]

Haruo, I'm being provocative with K and S on this and believe in rendering to Caesar taxes and other things.

I don't believe I have called taxation theft.

The problem with using Jesus and the Bible in gummit policy is that those Christians who wish to impose their idea of fairness or to assert their entitlement to certain things including the labor and wealth of others would use the coercive power of gummit as a tool to their ends. I prefer not to join Keith's idea of fairness nor Sandy's entitlement to free services of health care providers.

Keith, ever heard of Google? Try "armed IRS raid" or similar. Happy reading.

[KeithE]

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

[ET]

[Sandy]

[Sandy]

[ET]

[ET]

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

You are intentionally not getting it here. Gummit can use force to accomplish its desires, one of which is taxation. Sometimes this is done with guns. Thanks again for making my point.

[William Thornton]

In spite of graphs, Keith’s main points are subjective as evidenced by the arguments against wealthy, in favor of a more perfect union, arbitrary divisions of the populace (the evil 1% etc) in his alleged arguments, and most notably his view that gummit should arbitrarily set some limit on wealth. I suspect if he fleshes out the latter, he will sink like a stone in his own absurdities.

We differ in such a fundamental way. I favor private property, enjoying the fruits of one’s labor, and the like while he favors taking, by force of guns if necessary, from those he considers too wealthy, earning too much, accumulating assets that exceed his subjective sense of fairness. I think he has a winnable argument, one that needs no graphs, because there is always a market for proposals that would take from the evil rich and give to those who haven’t achieved sufficiently to have the wealth they think the are owed.

Sandy, who fails to recognize simple market forces like supply and demand when he sees them, merely desires free stuff if it involves something he thinks is disallowable for another to profit from. This is mainly health services but food at times. I do give him credit for offering up a nice free market example of going to Mexico for much cheaper health services but mark him down for not recognizing what he was doing nor any of the causes for that which would include no tort nonsense as we have here, less intrusive gummit interference, lower paid workers (which puts him afoul of Keith’s artificial income proposals), and lower standards and resources for health. He is welcome to put numbers to his perpetual complaint about excessive profits and overpaid execs. Get some numbers, bro. Compare that to the total health spending and see what you’ve got.

Sandy also is a latent theocrat who would impose a lot of Bible as law: “You there, Doctor, you have been given much (no matter that you earned it), so in Jesus’ name we are taking it away from you to give to this guy over here who has not earned it. Deal with it.” Perhaps Sandy would explain exactly how any of the scriptures he quotes are meant to be applied to secular gummit, rather than followers of Christ. Bit of a church-state problem there.

I make no claims about being happy about our present system. With gummit subsidies, I may even have less premiums to pay although I will pay one way or another in the long run. My parent’s generation got all the benefits – Social Security far beyond their contributions and MediCare far beyond as well. I appreciate gummite for their Baby Boomer inheritance protection plan.

ET and I, alone, hold the standard for rational thinking in this area. Happy to help brethren.

[David Flick]

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

Yet again you ignore the obvious. If you get a free knee op, gummit having not one red cent of its own, I pay. If I refuse, eventually the guns come out.

In essence, you wish for gummit to satisfy your subjective sense of fairness and since you cannot force others to yield to such you are perfectly willing for gummit to do it for you.

[KeithE]

[ET]

[Sandy]

There are several provisions of the Affordable Healthcare Act which have been adjusted by bills passed that relate to religious organizations. The birth control coverage and coverage for the abortion pill, which had the Catholics up in arms and Hobby Lobby's panties in a wad, have both been addressed, and remedied, and Hobby Lobby doesn't have to worry that the money it pays for employee benefits will wind up buying someone's abortion pill. And it looks like there's another bill in the works that will help the clergy in other denominations, including the Methodists. But that's what was said about this bill all along, that where things needed to be modified, the government would have the ability to modify it. And they've delivered on that promise.

I just signed our check and the application to the insurance exchange for our employee coverage beginning in February 2014. We will save $14,000 in premiums on coverage for 23 people, and we saved an additional $16,000 on our HSA because of the provisions of Obamacare. The coverage dropped a lot of the deductibles, so the out of pocket is $1,000 max per person. With those savings, we were actually able to upgrade the coverage that we provide for employees, and we kept the family member coverage the same. If it weren't for Obamacare, we'd have had to drop the benefit of providing coverage for family members this year.

[KeithE]

[ET]

[Sandy]