Religious Freedom

[Ed Pettibone]

[James]

“No one set of values should dominate the country.”

Bruce did not make this statement. The pollsters did. I disagree with the statement, but firmly believe that to adopt any religious standard as the norm would be a mistake because every religion practiced in the United States would propose a different standard. This thread proves that even Baptists disagree on what the standard should be.

So, here are a few observations about the state of religious freedom in this country.

As too the influence of conservative religion on secular life.

As a highschool senior, I participated in a mandatory school assembly in which Chester Swor, a well known Southern Baptist evangelist preached a "come to Jesus" revival sermon and, after the sermon, he asked for professions of faith. He got several raised hands. My Jewish friends were either amused or offended, but kept their mouths shut in defference to the overwhelming influence of Baptists in the city of Atlanta.

As a Home Mission Board summer missionary to East St. Louis, IL, my major duty was to teach is vacation Bible schools in the association. At one school, heavily attended by children of non-church members, the preacher preached at the graduation ceremony. I will never forget his performance. He looked the 3 and 4 year old kids filling the first three pews and told them that if they did not make a profession of faith this night and died on the way home, they would go to HELL for eternity. Only this and one other time have I ever been ashamed to be a Christian. I do not know what I could have done to stop this nonsense but I should have tried something.

ET suggests that there is no evidence that consevative Christianity is influencing public life. I disagree.

When Terri Shiavo layed brain dead on life support, conservative Christians and their allies in Congress tried to rush through a special act to put her fate in the hands of Congress.

In 2004 the Texas GOP adopted a platform which "affirmed the status of the United States as a Christian nation, regretted the Myth of the separation of church and state." (Philips, American Theocracyp 233)

Oct 2004, Dover, PA school board bans teaching evolution.

If you want more read American Theocracy by Kevin Philips, a life long republican and one time GOP power broker.

[ET]

[KeithE]

[Bruce Gourley]

ET: If I work for your company, and you the owner demand that I live/act/or even believe according to your religious faith in order to maintain my employment with you, you are guilty of violating my religious liberty.

Period.

[ET]

[Tim Bonney]

[Bruce Gourley]

[KeithE]

[ET]

[KeithE]

[Bruce Gourley]

[ET]

[Sandy]

The problem Hobby Lobby's owners are encountering is that, in order to receive all of the government tax breaks, loopholes and allowances to which they are entitled, they must be in compliance with government regulations related to the various laws and acts regarding employment opportunity. They are free to operate their business as they choose, and to pay for or not pay for whatever they choose. But since they've opted to receive the tax abatements, benefits, allowances, loopholes and other means of increasing their profit margin that are allowed under equal employment, they must abide by government regulations that require them to treat their employees equally, including showing no discrimination based on religious preference. They can opt not to provide their employees with any benefits if they choose, though they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face in terms of being able to keep reliable workers. But what it sounds like is that they want to have their cake and eat it too. They've taken the benefits and government entitlements, and made a fortune. They need to be responsible enough to honor the law that allows them to do this.

That's not tyranny.

[Tim Bonney]

I'm surprised this argument is still going on, and that ET is taking the side he is taking. (Well, I'm not really surprised ET doesn't believe in religious freedom all that much.)

Bruce has been completely clear and accurate as to what the rights are of citizens of this nation, and they don't include forcing your religious preferences on another.

[Sandy]

ET's position is a great example of how average, middle class Americans have been convinced that supporting everything that benefits the wealthiest 1% will somehow lift the economy because they are the "job creaters" and any government regulation is a deterrent to their prosperity. Of course, there is absolutely no factual information to support that, in fact, the data and history flies in the very face of it, but they are insulated inside their own media bubble and the response you get can be lifted from those pages. Most of those who push this idea still actually believe that the President's birth certificate is forged because they've seen the true evidence on YouTube.

[William Thornton]

[Tim Bonney]

[KeithE]

Besides Bruce’s Sunday Mail article, Big Daddy has an excellent article at the BHH&S site about the “contraception” insurance war.

.

He points out the true motivation is not religious liberty being infringed (geez no one is being forced to buy contraception), but the agenda is to limit contraceptives. I have never realized that any Baptist body has ever outlawed contraception like Catholics and Mormons do. I guess it could be a recent SBC edict from Al Mohler that I’m unaware of, but unless it has already been Baptist dogma, the real reason to bring it up now is anti-Obama rhetoric and grandstanding along with a large share of self-righteous martrydumb.

And if all “gummint” acts that crossed someone’s moral line were to be outlawed, there would be little the gummint could undertake - e.g. no Dept of Offense funding.

Because contraceptives can be used for abortion, it must be banned (these conservatives say). But for the most part, these conservatives want their guns available (ignoring they can be used for murder, suicide, theft,...). Go figure.

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

[William Thornton]