Protestantism caused Atheism ?

[Tim Bonney]

[Matto]

[Tim Bonney]

[Matto]

[Tim Bonney]

[Matto]

[Tim Bonney]

[Matto]

Sandy, Rabbi and Jewish historian Pinchas Lapide wrote "Pius XII, the Holy See, the Vatican’s Nuncios, and the whole Catholic Church saved between 700,000 and 850,000 Jews from certain death."

The number of Jews Britain and the US saved was no more than 15000 combined, in fact they were turning Jewish refugees back.

When Pius XII was still a cardinal he denounced the Nazis in 40 of the 42 speeches he made on German soil before the war. He also rallied the Bishops of Germany to declare excommunication on all those that joined the Nazi party, or wore the uniforms and symbols, and priests were forbidden to attend the funeral of a Nazi. All this in the 1930's, when many in the west were praising Hitler and his economic miracle in Germany.

When the Bishops of Holland denounced the Nazis directly about the deportation of Jews, the Nazis in reprisal took 80 % of the Jewish population, and especially taking as many Catholic Jews as they could. Edith Stein being one of them.
The Bishops knew that then that direct denunciation of the Nazis ended in greater numbers of Jews and Catholics murdered.
So Pius XII engaged in a covert rescue operation on giant scale, he ordered that all monasteries and convents, churches and Catholics to hide the Jews from the Nazis. Open denunciations at that point apart from achieving nothing, only ended in more Jewish deaths.  

[Dave Roberts]

I appreciate the fact that there were Catholics in Europe who protected Jews during the Second World War. At the same time, Vatican officials helped some Nazis in their escapes to South America and certainly supported Mussolini in Italy. WW II is a mixed history for the RCC.

One New Testament question for apostolic authority. What Bishop ordained Paul and Barnabas when the church at Antioch set them apart for the work to which God is calling them? No apostle from Jerusalem is mentioned in Antioch. By your logic, if there was no Apostle or successor present, was Paul an illegitimate apostle?

[Matto]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[Matto]

[Matto]

[KeithE]

[Matto]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

I have to say that I see that the formation of the ecumenical creeds are related to the final formation of the NT canon. But, none of the ecumenical creeds suggest papal infallibility or gave any suggestion that the church has always support the authority of the Bishop of Rome as the ruling Bishop.

[Matto]

[Sandy]

The Catholic Church, as it is known and exists today, was formed through the cultural blending of Christianity becoming the state religion of the Roman Empire during the reign of Theodosius in the 4th century, and the pressure put on the Empire by the decline and decay of its political and military power in the 5th and 6th century. The Eastern churches never acknowledged the authority or power of the Bishop of Rome, and the doctrines at the core of Catholic teaching, including the Papacy as the infallible Vicar of Christ, the Marian heresy, and some other influences, including a good dose of gnosticism, did not fully develop until later. The scriptures had been acknowledged and overwhelmingly accepted by the Christian church fairly early in the second century, long, long, long before the Catholic Church or the Papacy existed. Their collection, distribution, widespread use and canonicity were established as a result of the severe persecution endured by Christians from the end of the first century through the second century. By the time Constantine got around to sprinkling his troops with tree branches, and flooding the membership of the church with unregenerate pagans, thousands of complete manuscripts of the New Testament and the Septuagint had been copied and distributed.

The papacy is the result of secular influence, a desire to build a second Roman empire around a strong political figure, located in Rome, replacing the power once wielded by the Emperor. It had nothing to do with the plan laid out for the structure of the church that Jesus established.

[KeithE]

Catholic church also has to answer to this article:



Now I admire many Catholics like my daughter and her husband/inlaws. They are great people and as far as I concerned just as likely to be “saved” as any Baptist. And their social justice perspective far outshines that of Evangelical Christianity.

But their reaction to the sex abuse has been at a snail’s pace and reflects the same “hiding the embarrassment” as NCAA Division 1 Football.

[Sandy]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Dave Roberts]

[Tim Bonney]

The NCAA makes the rules for college football Ed, including what "winning" and "losing" means. They have determined that a coach covering up child sexual abuse is "losing" no matter what you did on the field. I agree with NCAA because "winning" at protecting children is way more important than "winning" the games. Remember, glorify it all you want, it is just a game.

We need to make the penalties for covering up such behavior so devastating to Universities and football programs that those who are in charge of University football programs will be terrified of the idea of covering up abuse and are willing to turn in abusers rather than risk the destruction of the football program as well as their future and their reputations.

I don't care how many football games Paterno led his team to win. When his opportunity came to be a real hero and turn in Sandusky he didn't step up to the plate. He didn't make the big play. Instead it appears that he pushed the cover up. That makes Joe Paterno not only a loser in football but a loser in life.