The Great Polarisation

[Tim Bonney]

[Dave Roberts]

[Haruo]

[Dave Roberts]

[Haruo]

[Matto]

[Tim Bonney]

[Matto]

[Tim Bonney]

Again Matto those "God given rights" are rights that you as a Christian of a particular Christian group believe are given by God. Well not everyone in the US is a Roman Catholic or a Christian. Your beliefs tell you what you believe God has given as a right. But what we have in the US are multiple faiths with multiple interpretations of what God says. It isn't the governments business to choose sides and agree with the Roman Catholic Church or my church or any religious belief.

In this country we are free to believe in God or not and to follow what God wants us to do or not. We have freedom of religion here and have no established churches or religions. Nor do I believe that God forces any of us to be obedient nor does God use the State to force people to comply to God's will.

You do get that what you believe God says and what other people believe God says and what God actually says may or may not be the same thing don't you?

[Matto]

[Tim Bonney]

Matto I think it is pretty comical for an Australian to try to argue about the US founders with informed US citizens. You were quoting the Declaration of Independence. That is not contained in the US constitution nor is it US law. And in the early days of the US "men" meant "men." Women didn't have the right to vote. And only white European men had these rights. Slaves didn't have these rights.

The Declaration was a good start but our nation has come a long way since then and that declaration isn't holy writ.

[Matto]

[Tim Bonney]

[Matto]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: I Have a feeling that most all here could stand a refresher on the American sufferage movement PRIOR to 1920

See: http://www.suffragist.com/timeline.htm

Johnston NY is about 35 miles west of where I am sitting. It takes about 45 Min to drive there. It is the home of Elizabeth Cady Stanton.

Elizabeth Cady Stanton (November 12, 1815-October 26, 1902) was a writer, a proponent for women's rights and an anti-slavery crusader. One of Stanton's major causes was suffrage, the right of women to vote.

Elizabeth Cady was born in Johnstown, New York. In 1840, Elizabeth married Henry Brewster Stanton, a lawyer and abolitionist (anti-slavery activist). They eventually had seven children. At the time, women were not allowed to vote, married women were not allowed to own property (all their property belonged solely to their husband), and women were not given the same educational opportunities and legal rights as men. Men were even legally allowed to beat their wives.

Stanton, Lucretia Mott, and others organized the first national women's rights convention in Seneca Falls, New York, in July, 1848. After meeting Susan B. Anthony in 1851, the two women became close friends and collaborated in working for social and legal equality for women, and other causes, including temperance (the outlawing of alcoholic drinks). In 1868, Stanton started publishing the women's rights newspaper called "Revolution." Stanton, Anthony, and Matilda Joslyn Gage later wrote the "History of Woman Suffrage" (1881-85).

Although Stanton faced opposition from many people throughout her life, especially on her radical proposal that women should be allowed to vote, she worked her entire life trying to obtain rights for women. In 1920, long after Stanton's death, Congress adopted the Nineteenth Amendment to the US Constitution, giving women the right to vote.

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

[Haruo]

[Haruo]

[Matto]

[Matto]

Besides most women don't want to vote, and especially young women, they are signing petitions to end the vote for women.

[Matto]

Even at universities the majority of women didn't want the vote.