Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

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Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:34 pm

from the Baptist Standard.

https://www.baptiststandard.com/opinion ... e-country/

Jeremiah Bailey wrote:I am particularly troubled by the fact that many of those who have heaped the greatest amount of bile and vitriol upon Colin Kaepernick and those following his example are my brothers and sisters in Christ. Kaepernick and some of his fellow players have been quite clear that their activism on the field is related explicitly to their faith in Jesus Christ. This alone should give the enraged mobs pause.
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Nick saban wasnt bad

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:22 pm

Monday week ago at Saturday's down south. Any fair minded person will see it as a rebuttal of Trump and his SOB Statement; standing Nick Standing with Pete Carroll and the Heismann's Derrick Henry and Mariota.

I'm waitin on SEC Commish Greg Sankey and then Katy bar the Door, it's a whole new neighborhood.

Meanwhile Sandy and Thornton should prayerfully consider my blog on the Bama Senate which like LBJ's granny's nightshirt "covers everything!"
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby William Thornton » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:07 pm

NFL folds...money talks in this league.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:41 pm

Sandy wrote:from the Baptist Standard.

https://www.baptiststandard.com/opinion ... e-country/

Jeremiah Bailey wrote:I am particularly troubled by the fact that many of those who have heaped the greatest amount of bile and vitriol upon Colin Kaepernick and those following his example are my brothers and sisters in Christ. Kaepernick and some of his fellow players have been quite clear that their activism on the field is related explicitly to their faith in Jesus Christ. This alone should give the enraged mobs pause.


Ed: So Sandy do you believe brothers and sisters in Christ are infallible? It so happen that I have deep respect for Kaepernick's Christian witness and I was ok with his first use of this protest. But I have been disappointed in his apparent need to force his view on every one, that is not modeling Christ.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:07 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:
Sandy wrote:from the Baptist Standard.

https://www.baptiststandard.com/opinion ... e-country/

Jeremiah Bailey wrote:I am particularly troubled by the fact that many of those who have heaped the greatest amount of bile and vitriol upon Colin Kaepernick and those following his example are my brothers and sisters in Christ. Kaepernick and some of his fellow players have been quite clear that their activism on the field is related explicitly to their faith in Jesus Christ. This alone should give the enraged mobs pause.


Ed: So Sandy do you believe brothers and sisters in Christ are infallible? It so happen that I have deep respect for Kaepernick's Christian witness and I was ok with his first use of this protest. But I have been disappointed in his apparent need to force his view on every one, that is not modeling Christ.


No, I don't believe they're infallible. However, I'm not willing to judge their intentions, or to put my own constrictions and interpretations on their actions. And this writer nails the racial aspect of this issue perfectly. Not sure what you mean by Kaepernick having a "need to force his view on everyone." I don't see that.

NFL isn't going anywhere. Eight out of twelve game venues sold out last week, including several that went over-capacity (including Indianapolis, where everyone stayed except a handful of secret service accompanying the vice-president and wife during their half-million dollar cost to the taxpayer stunt). Ratings were up, in spite of the baseball playoffs beginning. Any empty seats that come around by way of people wanting to give them back to the teams will quickly be picked up at the same premium prices they originally sold for.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Haruo » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:45 pm

In what way has Kaepernick been forcing his witness on everybody else? I thought they were all choosing their own methods of protest.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby William Thornton » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:47 am

NFL owners aren't dumb. They can see that this will diminish their core constituency and are taking steps to minimize it. It's not a coincidence that trump has raised the issue of public subsidies. Money talks.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby JE Pettibone » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:38 am

Haruo wrote:In what way has Kaepernick been forcing his witness on everybody else? I thought they were all choosing their own methods of protest.


Ed: By making himself the center of attraction during the National Anthem.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Haruo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:40 am

I liked this comment in a local neighborhood Facebook group, where people are arguing over systemic racism and a local business's apparent decision to kick out a black man who dissed the President.
Jo wrote:people aren’t kneeling to protest the flag or anthem. This is no more about a song or a bit of fabric than Rosa Parks protest was about buses.


BTW whatever became of the statement by the Black Republican Senator from South Carolina some months back about his treatment by DC Campus Cops who didn't believe he was a senator?
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Sandy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:50 am

William Thornton wrote:NFL owners aren't dumb. They can see that this will diminish their core constituency and are taking steps to minimize it. It's not a coincidence that trump has raised the issue of public subsidies. Money talks.


Yes, it does. And without the talent of the 70% or so of the NFL players who are African American, there's no money. There's also not an NFL city in the country that's going to do anything to undermine the presence of their franchise, especially on an issue on which the public is evenly split when it comes to their opinion about the player's actions during the anthem. Trump's involvement only increased support for the players.

Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed: By making himself the center of attraction during the National Anthem.


That's what you say he did. I think the author of this article, Jeremiah Bailey, describes it much better than I could attempt to do.

Jeremiah Bailey in the Baptist Standard wrote:But instead of asking why their brother feels compelled by his faith to act in this manner, they have invented their own reasons for his behavior. He is unamerican, a provocateur, trying to build a brand on his failed career (never mind that his activism has almost certainly imperiled it), racist against whites, and above all “ungrateful.”

Instead of lashing out at those disturbing voices for the discomfort they cause, perhaps we need to think deeply about what in their consciences compels them to speak out in this way. I think if we open ourselves to troubling, prophetic voices, we will recognize the injustices unfolding before our eyes.

The blood of our black brothers and sisters cries out from the ground. It testifies against us.


To that last statement, I say "Amen, and in more ways than just this."
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Jim » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:20 am

Interesting article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2737554-colin-kaepernick-says-he-will-stand-for-national-anthem-if-he-plays-in-nfl-again. If K actually said this, he's a bit of a hypocrite, but who cares anyway? The current fad of disrespecting the flag is strictly a racial matter now, notwithstanding whatever K actually thought he was doing. He never used a poster to announce his efforts, just sat during the anthem, etc., and later said it was a stand against police brutality or something like that. Most fans probably don't give a fig about all the brouhaha this has created and figure a bunch of millionaires taking a knee for three minutes and then bashing each other for that three hours of fame every week means little more than how to make more money and constantly collect those gobs of greenbacks. What could be better than doing an in-your-face to the country at every opportunity? The disrespect actually points to the greatness of a nation that makes it possible to collect $4 million per year (avg. NFL wage) and diss the people who watch all at the same time.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Haruo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:14 pm

How many of you have listened attentively to this calm, "not angry" speech by the Black, Conservative, Republican, Evangelical Christian Senator from South Carolina, which he made to the Senate in the aftermath of last year's church shooting incident in his part of the country?

https://www.c-span.org/video/?412664-9/senators-scott-boxer-race-relations

I think those of us who are white (which is everybody I can think of on this supposedly Baptist-friendly forum) really need to hear this message, we really need to understand the vast difference between our experience of being pulled over by the cops and that of our compatriots whose main difference from us is that they are Black and we are White. And I really don't think many of us have heard, and digested, that fact.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Sandy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:53 pm

Haruo wrote:How many of you have listened attentively to this calm, "not angry" speech by the Black, Conservative, Republican, Evangelical Christian Senator from South Carolina, which he made to the Senate in the aftermath of last year's church shooting incident in his part of the country?

https://www.c-span.org/video/?412664-9/senators-scott-boxer-race-relations

I think those of us who are white (which is everybody I can think of on this supposedly Baptist-friendly forum) really need to hear this message, we really need to understand the vast difference between our experience of being pulled over by the cops and that of our compatriots whose main difference from us is that they are Black and we are White. And I really don't think many of us have heard, and digested, that fact.


Amen!
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby JE Pettibone » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:39 am

Haruo wrote:How many of you have listened attentively to this calm, "not angry" speech by the Black, Conservative, Republican, Evangelical Christian Senator from South Carolina, which he made to the Senate in the aftermath of last year's church shooting incident in his part of the country?

https://www.c-span.org/video/?412664-9/senators-scott-boxer-race-relations

I think those of us who are white (which is everybody I can think of on this supposedly Baptist-friendly forum) really need to hear this message, we really need to understand the vast difference between our experience of being pulled over by the cops and that of our compatriots whose main difference from us is that they are Black and we are White. And I really don't think many of us have heard, and digested, that fact.


Ed: Haruo, will you be sure to link Senator Scott's third speech when it is given, I would like to hear his solutions to this travesty on justice of which I have been aware of for at least 65 years.

Frankly I was less than impressed with this one. Did I miss something?
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Haruo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:20 am

Which travesty? And what are the first TWO speeches?
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby JE Pettibone » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:39 pm

Haruo wrote:Which travesty? And what are the first TWO speeches?


You posted the link to Scott's speech which he identified as the second of three in a series, and you recommend it strongly . Did you listen to it? If so, how would you describe the repeated traffic stops that he described?
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Haruo » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:21 am

JE Pettibone wrote:
Haruo wrote:Which travesty? And what are the first TWO speeches?


You posted the link to Scott's speech which he identified as the second of three in a series, and you recommend it strongly . Did you listen to it? If so, how would you describe the repeated traffic stops that he described?

I can not find any information either on a speech on the subject that preceded the one I linked to, or on the one he said he was going to give later that week.

I recommended it because I find it clear, non-hyperbolic, and coming from a person who can hardly be characterized as some sort of rabble-rousing BLM activist or whatever. I know far too many people who dismiss any suggestion of police bias against blacks out of hand based largely on their perception of the bias and politics of the people making the suggestion. Jim on this board might (I'm not sure) be one such.

The traffic stops? Sounds like a lot more than I've experienced in the same time frame.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby JE Pettibone » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:48 am

Haruo wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:
Haruo wrote:Which travesty? And what are the first TWO speeches?


You posted the link to Scott's speech which he identified as the second of three in a series, and you recommend it strongly . Did you listen to it? If so, how would you describe the repeated traffic stops that he described?

I can not find any information either on a speech on the subject that preceded the one I linked to, or on the one he said he was going to give later that week.

I recommended it because I find it clear, non-hyperbolic, and coming from a person who can hardly be characterized as some sort of rabble-rousing BLM activist or whatever. I know far too many people who dismiss any suggestion of police bias against blacks out of hand based largely on their perception of the bias and politics of the people making the suggestion. Jim on this board might (I'm not sure) be one such.


Ed: So Haruo You don't know when Scott's third speech was scheduled is that right?

And when you say The traffic stops? (7) Sounds like a lot more than I've experienced in the same time frame. Perhaps you did a lot less driving in the same time frame. I have only been stoped one in the past 10 years, driving slowly ,looking around in Florida with NY Plates.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Sandy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:02 pm

Jeremiah Bailey in the Baptist Standard wrote:Second, the sin of racism has infected the hearts of our people to a degree many do not wish to acknowledge.

Black entertainers are told to keep our entertainment at the forefront. Using their platform to advance their own issues is “ungrateful.” The underlying reasoning seems to be that without us and our viewership they’d still be in poverty, never mind that they’ve been elevated by their own talents and abilities.

The white occupation of black success, particularly in sports, is, I believe, fundamentally rooted in racism. Many of those who heap scorn upon Kaepernick do so in racially charged ways. They hate black success yet still desire to internalize the success of black athletes through their fandom.

The key for them, I think, is forgetting athletes’ blackness, subsiding their black identity beneath the collective identity of the team and its fans. Being reminded of the reality of our society by successful black people breaks the fandom trance and reminds them of their underlying resentment.


I think he hit the nail on the head here, especially with the first sentence. Sometimes it's open, sometimes much more subtle. Black Lives Matter is an organization that comes after 150 years of injustice and violence prompted by racial prejudice, including some highly publicized incidents in front of the cameras. But they get categorized as just another group of activists playing "the race card." On the other hand, on Saturday afternoon or evening, 105,000 people will gather in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, 90% of them white, and will pay from $100 to $10,000 per seat to watch a group of predominantly African American college kids run a pigskin ball up and down the field. In that venue, they're willing not only to tolerate criminal activity, but to step in and defend them with their own time and money if there's a problem. So it's not hard to figure out why the idea that a protest in an NFL venue might be effective. Because the fact of the matter is that wealthy white people aren't going to stop paying hundreds of dollars for tickets to sit in a stadium and watch a mostly African American team carry that inflated pigskin up and down the field in a jersey with their city's name on it. So if it works...

You can't really put yourself in the position of being someone who is a minority by racial origin, who gets singled out because of that. It doesn't happen to whites, not even in African American or Latino or Asian neighborhoods. So maybe the posture here is to shut mouth, open ears and learn something.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby JE Pettibone » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:04 pm

Ed: Sandy where are you getting your ticket price info? Yea I know there are Scalpers yet the majority of fans in the stands paid far less than your claim. The price of tickets for that game ranged from $48.00 to $96.00 as of yesterday, from an on line re-seller.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Haruo » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:00 pm

I can only think of four or five times in my life that I have been pulled over by a cop; one led to a ticket, and one led to a trip to jail (my second of three) but the jail visit was not related to my driving. I still don't get what Ed it driving at with the quizzing about speeches by Tim Scott other than the only one I've actually seen. And I don't get what the bit about the tickets and frequency of traffic stops is about. Ed? (I'm posting this way because doing it from the original involves more embedded quotes than the software can take.)
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby JE Pettibone » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:57 am

Haruo wrote:I can only think of four or five times in my life that I have been pulled over by a cop; one led to a ticket, and one led to a trip to jail (my second of three) but the jail visit was not related to my driving. I still don't get what Ed it driving at with the quizzing about speeches by Tim Scott other than the only one I've actually seen. And I don't get what the bit about the tickets and frequency of traffic stops is about. Ed? (I'm posting this way because doing it from the original involves more embedded quotes than the software can take.)


Ed: Hauro, in my initial question I asked that you link Senator Scott's third in a series on race relations assuming you could do that since made such a strong recommendation of the 2nd and I had no hint as to how to find the next one.

When I took time to follow your initial link, as I have said, I was disappointed that their was nothing new. For decades members of the Black communities across the nation have made legitimate complaints of police harassment in the form of traffic stops for petty and even non existent violations therefore I am surprised that you find Senator Scott's "impassioned" plea to be of any special import. However I would still like to hear the his suggestions for ending this practice, which he stated would be the subject of the the third speech in the series.

Perhaps I am looking for some passion, when a U.S. Senator makes a speech to his peers on such an important, albeit time worn Issue.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby Sandy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:26 am

JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Sandy where are you getting your ticket price info? Yea I know there are Scalpers yet the majority of fans in the stands paid far less than your claim. The price of tickets for that game ranged from $48.00 to $96.00 as of yesterday, from an on line re-seller.


I'm speaking of the premium seats and season ticket licenses. Of course, not everyone gets the premium seats to pay the higher price, but across the board, college football tickets vary according to demand. I was at the WVU-TTU game yesterday, and the seats on the mezzanine, in the boxes between the levels of the stadium, go for $150. A space in the blue lot outside the stadium where the tailgaters hang out is $1,500 per game, $4,000 if you haul in an RV. Across the board in college football, the fan base is overwhelmingly white, much more so than the population at large. This is a nit picky diversion, though, of the type you are noted for. It's a minor detail that doesn't affect the point that was made in any way.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby William Thornton » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:18 pm

Face value for UGA tickets is $50 or so. Season ticket holders of premium seats pay a chunk, a donation, to the athletic association. For most games you can pick up a ticket on the street for below FV but not for premium games. I haven't paid for a ticket for years (might attend a couple of games a year) because of friends, sometimes HS coaches who often get free tickets, etc. Truth is, I'd rather sit at home and watch on TV these days.

Big money in college football.
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Re: Best I've Seen on the NFL Protest issue....

Postby JE Pettibone » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:23 pm

Sandy wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Sandy where are you getting your ticket price info? Yea I know there are Scalpers yet the majority of fans in the stands paid far less than your claim. The price of tickets for that game ranged from $48.00 to $96.00 as of yesterday, from an on line re-seller.


I'm speaking of the premium seats and season ticket licenses. Of course, not everyone gets the premium seats to pay the higher price, but across the board, college football tickets vary according to demand. I was at the WVU-TTU game yesterday, and the seats on the mezzanine, in the boxes between the levels of the stadium, go for $150. A space in the blue lot outside the stadium where the tailgaters hang out is $1,500 per game, $4,000 if you haul in an RV. Across the board in college football, the fan base is overwhelmingly white, much more so than the population at large. This is a nit picky diversion, though, of the type you are noted for. It's a minor detail that doesn't affect the point that was made in any way.


Ed: Sandy you prices on RV Parking at the West Va Stadium are also grossly inflated.

" single Game RV Lots Parking Times and Cost:

Black RV parking (Coliseum Lot) – Friday 8 a.m. - $80 per game
Light Blue Auxiliary Parking (Don Nehlen Drive) – Friday 12 p.m. (noon) - $350 per game

RVs must be clear from the lots operated by West Virginia University Department of Intercollegiate Athletics by 12 p.m. (noon) the day following the game (excluding weeknight games). For more information on RV parking please contact the Director of Gameday Parking at 304-293-5649.
information."

What you call my nit pickiness is generally an attempt at exposing your use of hyperbole, in an attempt to make what I see as an invalid point more impressive.
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