It is not only ....

The place to discuss politics and policy issues that are not directly related to matters of faith.

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It is not only ....

Postby KeithE » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:53 pm

.... the Russian issue but also Trump policies that are unraveling.

Tax Policy: The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center (TPC) has just released a study of the Trump tax plan. Trump Tax Agenda: 'Astonishing' Cuts for Rich Like Him and Hikes for Middle Class

The top 0.1 percent, earning above $3.4 million a year, would get an average tax cut of $937,700, or a 13.3 percent boost in after-tax income."


"And among those in the middle class, almost a quarter would see their taxes go up," Ehrenfreund notes. "For households with annual incomes between $49,000 and $86,000, those facing a hike would see an average annual increase of $1,000."


"the overall plan would give the average family earning under $25,000 per year a $40 tax cut, or a 0.3 percent boost in after-tax income.


GOP Health Care Bill (supported by Trump):. How the Rich Gain and the Poor Lose Under the Senate Republican Health Care Plan

A family making more than $200,000 a year would gain $5,420 on average by 2026, while a family making less than $10,000 a year would lose $2,550 if the Senate Republican health care bill becomes law, according to a new analysis.


and for those over $1M /year income:
Families with incomes above $1 million a year would pay about $50,000 less in taxes.


Meanwhile, 22M people will lose health care insurance (returning to the percentage of uninsured 17.5% slightly worse than before ObamaCare 17.4%). And Medicaid will be cut in funding by nearly $1T over ten years (medicaid supports primarily those in nursing homes, having births, children and the poor).

Gifts to Large Corporations: Trump’s Worst Collusion Isn’t With Russia — It’s With Corporations

Meanwhile, majorities of Americans in every single congressional district support efforts to curb local pollution, limit carbon emissions, and transition to wind and solar. And majorities in every single state back the Paris climate agreement.

Yet even as scientists warn large parts of the planet could soon become uninhabitable, the fossil fuel-backed Trump administration has put a climate denier in charge of the EPA, pulled the U.S. out of Paris, and signed legislation to let coal companies dump toxic ash in local waterways.

Meanwhile, as the administration escalates the unpopular Afghan war once again, Kushner invited billionaire military contractors — including Blackwater founder Erik Prince — to advise on policy there.

Elsewhere, JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon and other architects of the housing crash are advising Trump on financial deregulation, while student debt profiteers set policy at the Department of Education.

Chomsky complains that this sort of collusion is often “not considered a crime but the normal workings of democracy.” While Trump has taken it to new heights, it’s certainly a bipartisan problem.

If Trump’s people did work with Russia to undermine our vote, they should absolutely be held accountable. But the politicians leading the charge don’t have a snowball’s chance of redeeming our democracy unless they’re willing to take on the corporate conspirators much closer to home.


-------------------

To supporters of Trump (Jon, William, Ed, Jim,...):

Face it, Trump has been a bad dude his whole adult life and a bad President now (mostly looking after his own Billionaire class).
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:33 am

Did we really expect a billionaire to care about the middle and lower classes. It's like the Titanic--keep the gates locked to keep them on the lower decks.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby KeithE » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:44 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:Did we really expect a billionaire to care about the middle and lower classes. It's like the Titanic--keep the gates locked to keep them on the lower decks.

It is possible that a Billionaire will care for middle/lower classes, but not this guy.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Sandy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:30 pm

Our senator, Toomey, wouldn't conduct a town hall after he co-sponsored the trumpcare senate bill, but people scheduled and held them anyway, at every office he has in the state, for a week. One of the local Pittsburgh stations found out from one of his staffers that the calls flooding into his office opposed to trumpcare were coming in so much volume, that it shut the whole exchange down for a while. I didn't have any idea where Toomey's office was in Pittsburgh, but got a pretty good idea last Thursday when I saw the crowds, and the line, down the sidewalk, around the corner, and into a crowfed park. People don't often pay a lot of attention to the details of most legislation, but there sure is a high awareness that this bill is aimed at giving billionaire tax cuts and cutting off Medicaid and insurance subsidies.

Looks like Bernie Sanders may be the guy who's rallying the troops. At any rate, I hope they keep pushing for the billionaire tax cut and they keep offering crapola health bills. It sure gets people angry at them.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Dave Roberts » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:31 am

KeithE wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:Did we really expect a billionaire to care about the middle and lower classes. It's like the Titanic--keep the gates locked to keep them on the lower decks.

It is possible that a Billionaire will care for middle/lower classes, but not this guy.


Of course, we had Howard Butt and we still have Warren Buffett, but the great temptation for all of us is to defend our privilege and our holdings in the face of change.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Sandy » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:07 pm

What we have is the most incompetent president in history, to the tenth power, who required and solicited the help of a foreign power to get elected and hides behind old line, unprovable claims of media bias. He's been six months of less than zero. I hear arguments in the press about his "base" still being loyal, but not seeing that. And it's not just the "coastal elite" that is recognizing this massive failure. His opposition made their strongest showing in decades in special elections in deep red states, gaining over 15% on average since last November. The icing on the cake is that for seven years, the obstructionist Republicans have whined and wailed against Obamacare, declaring it failed, attempting to bankrupt it to kill it, and the buffoon claims the repeal will be the first thing he signs on his first day in office. All of this while the evidence of his campaign's total collusion with the Russians to illegitimately elect him mounts. The country is in major trouble.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:00 am

Sandy wrote:What we have is the most incompetent president in history, to the tenth power, who required and solicited the help of a foreign power to get elected and hides behind old line, unprovable claims of media bias. He's been six months of less than zero. I hear arguments in the press about his "base" still being loyal, but not seeing that. And it's not just the "coastal elite" that is recognizing this massive failure. His opposition made their strongest showing in decades in special elections in deep red states, gaining over 15% on average since last November. The icing on the cake is that for seven years, the obstructionist Republicans have whined and wailed against Obamacare, declaring it failed, attempting to bankrupt it to kill it, and the buffoon claims the repeal will be the first thing he signs on his first day in office. All of this while the evidence of his campaign's total collusion with the Russians to illegitimately elect him mounts. The country is in major trouble.


"All of this while the evidence of his campaign's total collusion with the Russians to illegitimately elect him mounts."

Please tell us what specific evidence have been brought forward which got Trump Illegitimately elected?

All accusation but no evidence. Just screaming the sky is falling does not mean it is.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby KeithE » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:04 am

Jon's blind eye to collusion evidence belies the truth that Trump's base is not being loyal as Sandy Insists. The base appears to be about 36-40%. Sad (as Trump would say).

Collusion evidence is mounting - it started quietly with an FBI investigation in June 2016, continued with the firing of that investigator (Comey), then failure to disclose several Russian/ campaign members mtgs, then despite denials revelations of Trump Jr 2016 meeting explicitly to get dirt on Hillary / 3 hours later Trump Sr says he will release "next Monday " ( he didn't - what happened? Russians didn't come through??), revelations of Russian hacking into several states voter registration, and continuing with secret meetings with Putin today. Let those that have eyes, see.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:12 am

KeithE wrote:Jon's blind eye to collusion evidence belies the truth that Trump's base is not being loyal as Sandy Insists. The base appears to be about 36-40%. Sad (as Trump would say).

Collusion evidence is mounting - it started quietly with an FBI investigation in June 2016, continued with the firing of that investigator (Comey), then failure to disclose several Russian/ campaign members mtgs, then despite denials revelations of Trump Jr 2016 meeting explicitly to get dirt on Hillary / 3 hours later Trump Sr says he will release "next Monday " ( he didn't - what happened? Russians didn't come through??), revelations of Russian hacking into several states voter registration, and continuing with secret meetings with Putin today. Let those that have eyes, see.


Your causation do not mean fact. Show me the facts. Show me the collusion.

Nothing you list above proves collusion. I get it that you think there is a Trump collusion under every rock but that's your problem and your place to prove what you claim to be true.

Just tell men this... How does the Comey firing prove collusion? Don't speculate or give some idiotic conspiracy theory give me facts on how this firing proves or is collusion with Russia.

The fact is... Comey needed to be fired. Something liberals even wanted before they could use the firing as a means to accuse.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby KeithE » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:33 am

Evidence is not proof. But evidence has been mounting. Your mind appears to be closed.

Also collusion is not necessarily illegal but falsified SF forms are.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Sandy » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:01 am

Dozens of unexplained, unreported "meetings" between Trump campaign officials and Russian intelligence agents over a two year period, with all of the "oops" moments. First Flynn didn't meet anyone from Russia. Then oops, well, he did and got fired for lying to the Veep about it. Then it was Sessions who claimed not to have met with any Russian officials in Cleveland, until there was a camera capture of him meeting with the ambassador. Then it was, "oops, forgot about that. Ok, I'll recuse myself." Then it was Manafort. "Oops. Yeah, I forgot that I worked for the Russians as a representative of theirs to our government and got over a million dollars for it." So he gets set aside as campaign manager. Then it was Conway, "Oh, yeah, I guess those two guys in that video of me in that meeting for over an hour were Russians (one of them was Kislyak), oops, I forgot that." And now there's the ongoing saga of Donald Jr. and his emails, and the inadvertent but outright admission of collusion. The evolution of the Trump administrations excuses has gone from "There were no meetings with Russians," to "OK, OK, oops. We were busy and so the eight top officials of our campaign don't remember which meetings were with Russians and which ones were with Mexicans," to another line, "OK, you caught us multiple times on camera and in emails meeting with Russians, but they weren't about the election, they were about adoption of Russian orphans," to the latest line, "OK, we colluded with them, but what's wrong with that?"

You're way out of date on this, Jon, and terribly uninformed. The line for you Trump cheerleaders now isn't "there was no collusion," it's "OK, there was collusion but there's nothing illegal or wrong with that, because anybody would take information about their political opponent and use it regardless of where it came from, right?"

There is something drastically wrong with Americans who are not horribly sickened by this.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:27 am

Sandy wrote:Dozens of unexplained, unreported "meetings" between Trump campaign officials and Russian intelligence agents over a two year period, with all of the "oops" moments. First Flynn didn't meet anyone from Russia. Then oops, well, he did and got fired for lying to the Veep about it. Then it was Sessions who claimed not to have met with any Russian officials in Cleveland, until there was a camera capture of him meeting with the ambassador. Then it was, "oops, forgot about that. Ok, I'll recuse myself." Then it was Manafort. "Oops. Yeah, I forgot that I worked for the Russians as a representative of theirs to our government and got over a million dollars for it." So he gets set aside as campaign manager. Then it was Conway, "Oh, yeah, I guess those two guys in that video of me in that meeting for over an hour were Russians (one of them was Kislyak), oops, I forgot that." And now there's the ongoing saga of Donald Jr. and his emails, and the inadvertent but outright admission of collusion. The evolution of the Trump administrations excuses has gone from "There were no meetings with Russians," to "OK, OK, oops. We were busy and so the eight top officials of our campaign don't remember which meetings were with Russians and which ones were with Mexicans," to another line, "OK, you caught us multiple times on camera and in emails meeting with Russians, but they weren't about the election, they were about adoption of Russian orphans," to the latest line, "OK, we colluded with them, but what's wrong with that?"

You're way out of date on this, Jon, and terribly uninformed. The line for you Trump cheerleaders now isn't "there was no collusion," it's "OK, there was collusion but there's nothing illegal or wrong with that, because anybody would take information about their political opponent and use it regardless of where it came from, right?"

There is something drastically wrong with Americans who are not horribly sickened by this.


None of this says collusion. None of this says the election was affected or those you name colluded to see election hacked.

Just meetings.

Show the collusion, not just naming meetings.

I spoke with a Russian in my church about the election... Am I guilty of collusion?

Your hatred is blinding you. You think I'm a Trump cheerleader. LOL. I did not vote for the guy.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Sandy » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:41 pm

Jon Estes wrote:None of this says collusion. None of this says the election was affected or those you name colluded to see election hacked.


You can't be that far out of it, or in such denial to completely ignore what is out there. Even some pretty hard core partisan Republicans, and a lot of the right wing press is pointing out the collusion. Meeting with individuals associated with a hostile foreign government, including individuals working for Russian agencies and businesses that were under sanction, and not reporting those meetings, is illegal. Using information illegally hacked by a foreign government's spy network is collusion, and that is also illegal. The evidence coming out of the disclosure of those meetings proves there was collusion. But of course, you Trump cheerleaders can stay in your la la land fantasy world and believe they were just doing Bible study using Lifeway material, right?

How did it affect the election? Gee, I don't know. Does the constant dumping of fake documents and material hacked illegally purporting to come from one of the candidates affect the way people vote? Trump's "win" comes down to fewer than 50,000 votes cast across three states. Did the illegal hacks and dumps change the minds, or affect the voting intentions of 50,000 people, less than a quarter of a percent of all those who voted in those three states, enough to make them change their minds, or not show up? Even if the Russians weren't involved, and all the hacking had been done by the Trump campaign, it still would have been illegal. But what the evidence shows is that the Russians did the hacking, then went and found a ready, willing and eager Trump campaign to help them.

There's still the question of actual hacking of voting machines or vote counting computers. The evidence confirms that there were attempts by the Russians to do that, and in all three of the states that were must wins for Trump, plus Florida and Arizona. I know the investigation is still ongoing into that aspect of this election here in Pennsylvania.

But do you really want someone in the White House who got there by accepting the illegal and illicit, dishonest help of a foreign government that is bent on weakening our democracy, and destroying the freedoms it provides? Because that's what this boils down to.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Jim » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:09 pm

Definition of collusion (M-W): secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose. In order for collusion to occur it must be a secret agreement but everyone in the world (meaning only the important people in D.C.) seems to know about Russian-collusion, ergo, not being a secret, collusion did not occur; however, if it DID occur, precisely how was it manifested? At the ballot-box, individual citizens secretly colluded with Trump and each other to elect him. This precisely satisfies the definition. The Russian-collusion garbage was initiated during Obama's swan-song by his “people” in order to get Hillary elected but she had SECRETLY (those servers in her bathrooms) colluded with whatever and whomever for whatever purpose wherever – like her getting the debate questions SECRETLY by colluding with CNN. In this case, the collusion MO was recognized...Brazile, Podesta, Schultz torpedoing Sanders, unlike the non-collusion (no MO explained) by the Russians with anyone. Sanders went down (collusion operative) but Trump didn't (collusion not a factor).
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:28 pm

Sandy wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:None of this says collusion. None of this says the election was affected or those you name colluded to see election hacked.


You can't be that far out of it, or in such denial to completely ignore what is out there. Even some pretty hard core partisan Republicans, and a lot of the right wing press is pointing out the collusion. Meeting with individuals associated with a hostile foreign government, including individuals working for Russian agencies and businesses that were under sanction, and not reporting those meetings, is illegal. Using information illegally hacked by a foreign government's spy network is collusion, and that is also illegal. The evidence coming out of the disclosure of those meetings proves there was collusion. But of course, you Trump cheerleaders can stay in your la la land fantasy world and believe they were just doing Bible study using Lifeway material, right?

How did it affect the election? Gee, I don't know. Does the constant dumping of fake documents and material hacked illegally purporting to come from one of the candidates affect the way people vote? Trump's "win" comes down to fewer than 50,000 votes cast across three states. Did the illegal hacks and dumps change the minds, or affect the voting intentions of 50,000 people, less than a quarter of a percent of all those who voted in those three states, enough to make them change their minds, or not show up? Even if the Russians weren't involved, and all the hacking had been done by the Trump campaign, it still would have been illegal. But what the evidence shows is that the Russians did the hacking, then went and found a ready, willing and eager Trump campaign to help them.

There's still the question of actual hacking of voting machines or vote counting computers. The evidence confirms that there were attempts by the Russians to do that, and in all three of the states that were must wins for Trump, plus Florida and Arizona. I know the investigation is still ongoing into that aspect of this election here in Pennsylvania.

But do you really want someone in the White House who got there by accepting the illegal and illicit, dishonest help of a foreign government that is bent on weakening our democracy, and destroying the freedoms it provides? Because that's what this boils down to.


Accusations but no proof of collusion. Point me to where Russia tampered with the voting machines. Don't just make a claim. Prove it. Give a source of it being factual.

I'm just getting cricket sounds to a presentation of facts. You know I'm right, that's why you added the "even if..." comment.

But thanks for a good illustration for empty deceipt.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Sandy » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:24 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ry-clinton

Just one of many. No crickets chirping here. :lol:

Go to any credible news source or news website, not junk like World Net Daily or Limbaugh or Coulter, real news that has produced stories, evidence, actual named and accurate sources and facts. I'd suggest MSNBC, since no one has proven their evening line-up wrong yet, and some archive reading of the Washington Post and The New York Times. If you want conservatives who are documenting and reporting all of this, you've got Joe Scarborough, Chris Wallace and Nicole Wallace. There is evidence, there are credible sources. You either read them and see the truth or you keep supporting the hypocrisy of the empty philosophy and human wisdom that is required to keep cheerleading for the orange haired buffoon.

Everything that is in my previous post is a substantiated fact. Prove one thing that isn't. Yeah, thought so. You're not paying attention.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:51 pm

Sandy wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/11/donald-trump-jr-email-chain-russia-hillary-clinton

Just one of many. No crickets chirping here. :lol:

Go to any credible news source or news website, not junk like World Net Daily or Limbaugh or Coulter, real news that has produced stories, evidence, actual named and accurate sources and facts. I'd suggest MSNBC, since no one has proven their evening line-up wrong yet, and some archive reading of the Washington Post and The New York Times. If you want conservatives who are documenting and reporting all of this, you've got Joe Scarborough, Chris Wallace and Nicole Wallace. There is evidence, there are credible sources. You either read them and see the truth or you keep supporting the hypocrisy of the empty philosophy and human wisdom that is required to keep cheerleading for the orange haired buffoon.

Everything that is in my previous post is a substantiated fact. Prove one thing that isn't. Yeah, thought so. You're not paying attention.


The title of the article you link is not true. The emails were not from Russia. Start with a lie... the motive of the rest is telling.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Jim » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:42 pm

Sandy wrote:

But do you really want someone in the White House who got there by accepting the illegal and illicit, dishonest help of a foreign government that is bent on weakening our democracy, and destroying the freedoms it provides? Because that's what this boils down to.


Of course not, and she's not there, or had you noticed after these six months? Saying mean things about a foreign government means you don't believe in diversity or multi-culturism, or even safe-space. Or did you mean Canada, perhaps, or (gasp) California? Shame! Micro-aggression is your racist sort of approach to well-intentioned people. Shame...you deserve a timeout with no I-Pad or I-Pod or whatever they play with these days.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby KeithE » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:39 am

To further backup my claim that Trump has gifted corporations, we have this report by Public Citizen.

Trump’s Corporate Con Job - Six Months Into Term, Trump Has Fully Abandoned Populism In Favor of Giveaways to Industry

For those of you that still support Trump, please read this very well documented Report and face the facts

For those of you that are already disgusted with Trump, please pass this along to your friends.

You can read it at any level of detail.

Conclusion Only Level

Since Donald Trump’s presidential campaign ended, consumer-friendly proposals such as negotiating prescription drug prices or restoring a firewall between commercial and investment banks, have receded from view. Into their place has sprung a wish list of favors long-sought by industries to boost profits, often at the expense of the environment or the vast majority of Trump voters.

Given the scandal-plagued Trump administration’s failure to advance its priorities in Congress, it is tempting to conclude that Trump is not accomplishing anything of significance.

However, it’s clear that Trump and his administration are working to unravel important public protections, often at the behest of industry. The public is losing out.


Industry Level Only 10 industries treated as examples- there us much more. Much if this is carried out by the cabinet leaders and most of this is happening below the media radar who is more focussed on Russia and Health Care.

 Autos: In March 2017, at the behest of the automakers, Trump announced his administration would postpone a decision on whether to enact previously planned increases to fuel efficiency standards, which would raise the average vehicle’s official gas mileage to more than 50 miles per gallon by 2025.

 Chemicals: EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt has overturned staff experts’ recommendation to bar a dangerous insecticide and watered down a key bipartisan toxic substances law.

 Defense: After criticizing Lockheed Martin’s F-35 and Boeing Co.’s plans for a new Air Force One as expensive examples of government waste, Trump proposed a budget plan that would enrich those same contractors with a glaring increase to military spending of $54 billion.

 Education: Trump’s Department of Education has targeted for elimination rules established during the Obama administration that protect students from predatory private colleges and predatory student lenders.

Energy: The Trump administration is delaying, weakening or repealing numerous clean air rules or policies that benefit public health and the Earth’s climate and are favoring dirty fossil fuel-based polluters over the fast-growing and clean renewable energy sector.

 Financial Services: With bankers and bank industry lawyers now controlling policy and regulation, Trump has begun dismantling the guardrails that are meant to protect the public from Wall Street.

 Food: Since the election, Trump has catered to corporate food producers and agribusiness’ demands at the expense of food safety and children’s nutrition
.
 Pharmaceuticals: After casting himself as an opponent of pharmaceutical industry greed, Trump has fully caved into the industry, and is working reduce patient protections and strengthen the industry’s monopoly power.

 Prisons: Trump’s extreme anti-immigration rhetoric on the campaign trail was music to the ears of the for-profit prison industry, which now has been rewarded with policies that would increase the number of incarcerated people and permit for-profit companies to house federal prisoners.

 Telecom: Trump signed legislation that permitted industry to sell consumers private internet browsing data and his FCC has proposed ending “net neutrality” protections approved in 2015 that bar internet providers from blocking or slowing internet traffic, a measure taken to prevent larger Internet providers from steering customers to their own sites.


Detailed Level

But to really know the facts completely, please read the document and its references in areas of particular interest to you. One issue of interest to me is Pharmaceuticals.

Pharmaceuticals: Profit over Patients
Trump has cast himself as an opponent of pharmaceutical industry greed, accusing drug companies of “getting away with murder” because of prescription drug price spikes.140 During his presidential campaign, Trump proposed a plan to allow Americans purchase lower-priced medicines from abroad141 and expressed support for allowing Medicare to negotiate lower prices.142

Trump’s Flip-Flop on Drug Prices
Soon after taking office, Trump met with executives representing some of the largest drug companies, including Johnson & Johnson, Merck, Amgen and the head of the industry’s lobby group, PhRMA. Instead of standing up to the industry, he pledged to eliminate 75 to 80 percent of Food and Drug Administration regulations.143
Trump continued to claim that lowering prices was a priority. But a draft White House drug price proposal revealed that Trump’s White House fully caved in to the industry.144 Instead of lowering prices, the White House draft proposal would reduce patient protections and strengthen the industry’s monopoly power, resulting in increased prices abroad and potentially even raising prices within the U.S.145 The draft was conceived by a working group led by Joe Grogan, a former lobbyist for the prescription drug corporation Gilead. Public Citizen has posted additional leaked discussion documents suggesting other industry-friendly changes on its website.146

Deep Ties to Big Pharma
Trump’s Federal Drug Administration commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, has deep ties to the industry. Previously a venture capitalist with a firm that specializes in biopharmaceuticals, medical devices and health care services, Gottlieb also has served on pharmaceutical company boards. He has in recent years received $559,000, in total, from drug and medical device companies, including Pfizer, AstaZeneca, GlaxoSmithKline, Bristol-Myers Squibb and Valeant.147 The pay was mostly for consulting and speaking fees.148

Pharmaceutical corporations also hope to benefit from a separate Trump administration executive order149 that makes it easier for corporations to use “inversions” to avoid paying U.S. taxes, a scheme several of the companies already have employed.150 Trump previously criticized the practice.151

Pharmaceutical Industry Contributed Heavily to Trump’s Inauguration
Among the pharmaceutical industry contributors to Trump’s inauguration were Pfizer ($1 million), Amgen ($500,000) and Abbott Laboratories ($35,000). Trump has personally met with at least eight pharmaceutical industry executives, including the head of PhRMA, the industry’s lobbying group.152 At Trump’s meetings with industry executives, some go out of their way to demonstrate agreement with Trump’s policies. Amgen CEO Robert Brad said his company would add 1,600 jobs.153

Fueling Drug Price Increases
The Trump’s administration’s emerging approach to pharmaceutical regulation delivers favors to the pharmaceutical industry and fails to meet doctors’ traditional pledge to “first, do no harm.” Consumers will feel the effects of drug price spikes facilitated by industry monopolization. These costs translate into price-gouging of taxpayer-funded programs, including Medicare and the Veterans Administration, breaking candidate Trump’s promise to lower consumers’ costs.

References:

140 Carolyn Y. Johnson, Trump on Drug Prices: Pharma Companies Are ‘Getting Away With Murder,’ THE WASHINGTON POST (Jan. 11, 2017), http://wapo.st/2t9ghGr.
141 David Nather, Trump’s Health Care Plan Takes (Another) Page from the Democrats, STATNEWS (March 2, 2017), http://bit.ly/2jscTls.
142 Carolyn Y. Johnson, Trump on Drug Prices: Pharma Companies Are ‘Getting Away With Murder,’ THE WASHINGTON POST (Jan. 11, 2017),http://wapo.st/2t9ghGr.
143 Maggie Fox, Speed Up Drug Approvals? FDA Already Did, NBC NEWS (Feb. 1, 2017), http://nbcnews.to/2vb5P2t.
144 Sheila Kaplan and Katie Thomas, Draft Order on Drug Prices Proposes Easing Regulations, THE NEW YORK TIMES (June 20, 2017), http://nyti.ms/2rOl5Es.
145 Press Release, Public Citizen, Draft Trump Executive Order Abandons Promises to Challenge Big Pharma and Make Medications Affordable (June 23, 2017), http://bit.ly/2vvqayW.
146 Trump’s Agenda on Drug Prices, PUBLIC CITIZEN, http://bit.ly/2tcGcNf.
147 Physician Profile for Scott Gottlieb, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID SERVICES (viewed on July 18, 2017), http://bit.ly/2uszjLC.
148 Press Release, Public Citizen, Venture Capitalist Gottlieb Has Too Many Conflicts to Run FDA; We Need a Nominee Who Will Protect Public Health Instead of Industry (April 4, 2017), http://bit.ly/2uswJoV.
149 Larry Light, Trump Takes Aim at Obama's Ban on ‘Tax Inversions,’ CBS MONEYWATCH (April 21, 2017), http://cbsn.ws/2urTUQs.
150 Jonathan D. Rockoff, Why Pharma Is Flocking to Inversions, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL (July 14, 2017), http://on.wsj.com/2uBRcbu.
151 Paul R. La Monica, Company that Trump Bashed Isn’t Backing Down, CNN MONEY (Feb. 3, 2017), http://cnnmon.ie/2vvi4X6.
152 Rick Claypool, Corporate Executives Swamp the White House, CITIZENVOX (April 17, 2017), http://bit.ly/2paGExd; Press Release, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, PhRMA Statement Following Meeting With President Trump (Jan. 31, 2017), http://onphr.ma/2veaBMw.
153 Roberta Rampton and Deena Beasley, Trump Pushes Drugmakers for Lower Prices, More U.S. Production, REUTERS (Jan. 31, 2017), http://reut.rs/2jQ6qCZ
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby David Flick » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:42 pm

KeithE wrote:To further backup my claim that Trump has gifted corporations, we have this report by Public Citizen.

Trump’s Corporate Con Job - Six Months Into Term, Trump Has Fully Abandoned Populism In Favor of Giveaways to Industry

For those of you that still support Trump, please read this very well documented Report and face the facts

      Keith, that article isn't "documented facts." Not by any stretch of the imagination. The Public Citizen website is a liberal/progressive consumer rights advocacy group and think tank. As such, the article contains nothing more than liberal/progressive political propaganda talking points. It's pretty clear to me that you will fall for any political talking points that come down the liberal propaganda pike so long as they contain a couple of colorful graphs (page 14 & page 30). :lol:
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby Sandy » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:25 pm

Of course, anything that isn't exactly fixed on a conservative perspective is always labelled "liberal" by political conservatives. But they're not interested in what is fair, they are only interested in what promotes their own view, or bashes the other. Anything related to "consumer rights" will be labelled "liberal" by conservatives, because they aren't for consumer rights. It's not a matter of "liberal" or "conservative" slant, the key is in "well documented fact." That's the main difference between news sources. Conservatives don't like facts, especially facts that don't support their perspective, but the news sources they label as "liberal" are usually well documented with facts, and the more "liberal" they are, the more they go out of their way to be fair.

I see no evidence whatsoever to support the contention that the Public Citizen is wrong, and that these are not facts. Doesn't matter whether they are liberal, conservative or Hottentot. Call them "propaganda talking points" all you want, David, but if you provide absolutely zero evidence and no facts to dispute what is here, you have no argument. Sort of like your contention that climate change is not happening. Keith provides facts, you provide propaganda that a simple google search proves wrong.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby KeithE » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:25 pm

David Flick wrote:
KeithE wrote:To further backup my claim that Trump has gifted corporations, we have this report by Public Citizen.

Trump’s Corporate Con Job - Six Months Into Term, Trump Has Fully Abandoned Populism In Favor of Giveaways to Industry

For those of you that still support Trump, please read this very well documented Report and face the facts

      Keith, that article isn't "documented facts." Not by any stretch of the imagination. The Public Citizen website is a liberal/progressive consumer rights advocacy group and think tank. As such, the article contains nothing more than liberal/progressive political propaganda talking points. It's pretty clear to me that you will fall for any political talking points that come down the liberal propaganda pike so long as they contain a couple of colorful graphs (page 14 & page 30). :lol:


Well David, you at least paged through the document and found two dataplots! I guess I ought to congratulation you. But not all facts are plotable. There are quotes, historical facts, standalone numbers in texts and various forms of graphical/tabular displays. I like plots since at a glance you can see trends and perhaps cause and effect.

There were 198 references in that 36 page document full of facts of various sorts - that is “well documented" as far as I’m concerned especially since I looked at many of those references and there are many quoted texts of Executive Orders/Bills/Tweets/Trump stump speeches as well as many numbers/$ figures/plots/tables of DATA.

David, OTOH, just declared Public Citizen’s “article contains nothing more than liberal/progressive political propaganda talking points” just because it was called “liberal/progresive” by Wikipedia (which I thought he did not believe in). As such, he immediately dismissed it - that is bias. David needs to read the some of the 198 references to see the facts they used in making their conclusions. Take reference 1. The text said Trump said “I know the guys at Goldman Sachs: They have total, total control over [Republican presidential hopeful Ted Cruz]. Just like they have total control over Hillary Clinton.”1 . Reference 1 gave the same day reporting (February 19, 2016) from CNN that quotes Trump. From that reference:

Donald Trump on Friday assailed Sen. Ted Cruz, his closest rival heading into the South Carolina GOP primary, accusing the Texas senator of being controlled by one of Wall Street's biggest banks and the oil companies.

And he lumped Cruz in with Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.
"I know the guys at Goldman Sachs. They have total, total control over him. Just like they have total control over Hillary Clinton," Trump said of Cruz, whom the real estate mogul also called a "total fraud" and "the biggest liar I've ever seen."


They even put the explanatory note in [ ] which identified “him" as Cruz which is seen to be accurate in context (read the quote above).

That’s documentation - like I usually find when dealing with most “liberal/progressive” organizations unlike many (but not all) conservative organizations. Take the Trump Campaign - it offered no references or backup of any sort for saying Cruz and Hillary are “totally controlled by Goldman Sachs” - now there’s an example of undocumented propaganda.

David, you can ignore that corporations are lobbying the government (and often getting their way), but they are (including most any President and Congress since the 1970’s). This makes the government at least partially "for the corporation" not totally "for the people”. Research like this Public Citizen’s report makes the case that successful lobbying is continuing with a Trump presidency despite his “populist” claims.

I note that Trump often ascribes to an opponent, the bad characteristics he himself has trouble with - like telling lies (492 of them in his first 100 days, ascribed to"lying Ted Cruz"), or being in league with Goldman Sachs (at least 5 former GS employees are in Trump admin- Mnuchin, Cohn, Donovan, Clayton and even Bannonn) or golfing too much for a President (19 times for Trump in first 3 months, 1 time for Obama in first three months). That's hypocrisy.
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Re: It is not only ....

Postby KeithE » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:20 pm

Sandy wrote:Of course, anything that isn't exactly fixed on a conservative perspective is always labelled "liberal" by political conservatives. But they're not interested in what is fair, they are only interested in what promotes their own view, or bashes the other. Anything related to "consumer rights" will be labelled "liberal" by conservatives, because they aren't for consumer rights. It's not a matter of "liberal" or "conservative" slant, the key is in "well documented fact." That's the main difference between news sources. Conservatives don't like facts, especially facts that don't support their perspective, but the news sources they label as "liberal" are usually well documented with facts, and the more "liberal" they are, the more they go out of their way to be fair.

I see no evidence whatsoever to support the contention that the Public Citizen is wrong, and that these are not facts. Doesn't matter whether they are liberal, conservative or Hottentot. Call them "propaganda talking points" all you want, David, but if you provide absolutely zero evidence and no facts to dispute what is here, you have no argument. Sort of like your contention that climate change is not happening. Keith provides facts, you provide propaganda that a simple google search proves wrong.

Thank You Sandy.

I agree with your statements in red above; that matches my experience. But I still look at facts/data and fairness/morality before taking positions - liberal/conservative/otherwise.
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