Laura Ingraham meets her match on abortion and F and Furious

[Stephen Fox]

Some would say this belongs on Public Policy but since there is strong consensus to paraphrase George Wallace, there is not a dime's worth of difference between Fox News and the SBC ithink it belongs here.

Heraldo Rivera kick Miss Laura's butt on Fast and Furious Thursday night on Fox TV and now she gets her comeuppance on the radio.

Bishop Willimon of Duke and North Alabama has her number on Immigration.

But here she is this morning

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... _comments/

[Haruo]

Well, if the transcript and RD is anywhere near accurate, she sounds like she is not interested in inviting the people she invites. Which makes her a crackpot in my book.

[lewprivette]

That kind of exchange is why I have become hesitant to engage people (at church or in the workplace) in conversations about current events and/or politics. It's black or white, you're with us or against us, so there's no real reason to have a conversation. Has it always been this difficult?

[William Thornton]

Sorry, Stephen, this is no SBC issue. Put it here.

[William Thornton]

That kind of exchange is why I have become hesitant to engage people (at church or in the workplace) in conversations about current events and/or politics. It's black or white, you're with us or against us, so there's no real reason to have a conversation. Has it always been this difficult?

Depends on the individual, I suppose. There are quite reasonable people here from lib to con with which you can have a civil discussion.

[Sandy]

Laura Ingraham, and other radio disc-jockeys like her (Beck, Limbaugh, and some of the wannabees) are not interested in a civil conversation, they are being paid large sums of money through royalties and fees to promote an agenda and that's what they're going to stick with. Ingraham isn't entertaining enough to draw my attention. Occasionally I'll listen to Lamebrained Limbaugh, or Beck, because they get so ridiculously extreme that they can be entertaining. Ingraham is just flat out boring. The rest aren't worth bothering with.

[Matto]

This is the polarization. A person is either steeped in the culture of Life, or they are steeped in the culture of death.
Either Life is a sacred and precious thing in the mind of a man, or it is trash that be dropped in garbage bag and thrown in the ovens.
The work in the womb is Gods work, not the womans.

" He who formed me in the womb to be his servant"

Who are we to destroy the work of Gods hands.

In a few short years we will all stand in front of the Judgment Throne of Christ.

Are people going to educate God on a womans right to murder her baby. I don't think it will meet with success in front of the Life giving God.

Those that pronounce death to the Gods little ones, their own judgment has come from their mouths.

If you have freely received life, then freely give it.

Because the measure that you give is the measure you receive.

At Judgment a soul is silent, it has had it's time to speak and act, it can neither earn more merit or earn greater guilt, the sentence it pronounced here is the sentence it receives there.

A choice is set before us, Life or Death, choose Life.

[Matto]

This is a battle between Light and Dark, Life and death. Those who try to inhabit the grey areas are in the darkest dark.

"Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell. If a woman does not wish to have children, let her enter into a religious agreement with her husband; for chastity is the sole sterility of a Christian woman." Caesarius of Arles, Sermons 1:12 (A.D. 522).

[Dave Roberts]

This is a battle between Light and Dark, Life and death. Those who try to inhabit the grey areas are in the darkest dark.

"Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell. If a woman does not wish to have children, let her enter into a religious agreement with her husband; for chastity is the sole sterility of a Christian woman." Caesarius of Arles, Sermons 1:12 (A.D. 522).

Am I reading you correctly, Matto, that contraception and abortion are one and the same in your view?

[Tom Parker]

Matto:

Is the issue of abortion black and white to you with no grey areas?

[Tom Parker]

Matto:

You quoted below:

"Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell. If a woman does not wish to have children, let her enter into a religious agreement with her husband; for chastity is the sole sterility of a Christian woman." Caesarius of Arles, Sermons 1:12 (A.D. 522).[/quote]

Where is the above in the 66 books of the Bible?

[Dave Roberts]

Matto:

You quoted below:

"Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell. If a woman does not wish to have children, let her enter into a religious agreement with her husband; for chastity is the sole sterility of a Christian woman." Caesarius of Arles, Sermons 1:12 (A.D. 522).

Where is the above in the 66 books of the Bible?[/quote]

I'll be more generous even to accept a quote from the Apocrapha as well as the canonical 66 if you have one.

[Tom Parker]

Dave Roberts:

I'm very slow sometimes. You said"I'll be more generous even to accept a quote from the Apocrapha as well as the canonical 66 if you have one."

Were you referencing me? Just curious.

[Dave Roberts]

Dave Roberts:

I'm very slow sometimes. You said"I'll be more generous even to accept a quote from the Apocrapha as well as the canonical 66 if you have one."

Were you referencing me? Just curious.

No, I was referencing Matto. Sorry I was not clear. Just following your post.

[Matto]

Matto:

You quoted below:

"Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell. If a woman does not wish to have children, let her enter into a religious agreement with her husband; for chastity is the sole sterility of a Christian woman." Caesarius of Arles, Sermons 1:12 (A.D. 522).

Where is the above in the 66 books of the Bible?

It's a quote from the early Christians, not the Bible.

What you are seeing is a Catholic sermon that was given 1500 years ago.

Contraceptive drugs and abortion was considered evil then in the Catholic Church, and it is considered evil today. A completely consistent stance.

[Matto]

This is a battle between Light and Dark, Life and death. Those who try to inhabit the grey areas are in the darkest dark.

"Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell. If a woman does not wish to have children, let her enter into a religious agreement with her husband; for chastity is the sole sterility of a Christian woman." Caesarius of Arles, Sermons 1:12 (A.D. 522).

Am I reading you correctly, Matto, that contraception and abortion are one and the same in your view?

It's the same closed door to life.

[Matto]

Abortion is just a word, until people see one.

A high school religion class was asked their views on abortion. A shade under 70% spoke in favor of a "womans right to choose."
Then the class was shown an abortion on film. They saw a claw enter the womb and cut it's leg off, and it's mouth opened wide in pain, then the same for each limb.
Finally the head was cut off.

The class was horrified by what they witnessed, and even the most hard line of them was totally opposed to abortion. In their souls they knew what they witnessed was the murder of a defenseless human being.

So 70% approval turned into 100% opposition in a few minutes.

[Ed Pettibone]

Abortion is just a word, until people see one.

A high school religion class was asked their views on abortion. A shade under 70% spoke in favor of a "womans right to choose."
Then the class was shown an abortion on film. They saw a claw enter the womb and cut it's leg off, and it's mouth opened wide in pain, then the same for each limb.
Finally the head was cut off.

The class was horrified by what they witnessed, and even the most hard line of them was totally opposed to abortion. In their souls they knew what they witnessed was the murder of a defenseless human being.

So 70% approval turned into 100% opposition in a few minutes.

[Haruo]

Ed, are you seconding Matto's post, or citing it as an example of something unspecified, or what? There's a disjunct between his high school class's reaction and what he says will happen with those who support the woman's right to choose abortion over the fetus's right to life. I'm not sure if he sees the inconsistency.

[Tom Parker]

Matto:

I'm going to try and be smart and not attempt to engage you in dialogue as your mindset about contraceptives and abortion are just to engraved in stone as to make any attempt futile.

[Matto]

Matto:

I'm going to try and be smart and not attempt to engage you in dialogue as your mindset about contraceptives and abortion are just to engraved in stone as to make any attempt futile.

I can never understand those that aren't prepared to fight for their convictions.

[Haruo]

What if one of one's convictions is that it is sinful to fight?

[Dave Roberts]

It's a quote from the early Christians, not the Bible.

What you are seeing is a Catholic sermon that was given 1500 years ago.

Contraceptive drugs and abortion was considered evil then in the Catholic Church, and it is considered evil today. A completely consistent stance.

I'm simply asking for your scriptural support for your position, not that from church tradition.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed, are you seconding Matto's post, or citing it as an example of something unspecified, or what? There's a disjunct between his high school class's reaction and what he says will happen with those who support the woman's right to choose abortion over the fetus's right to life. I'm not sure if he sees the inconsistency.

Ed: Quite honestly I am not sure what happened. I Hit the quote button and then had a phone call that turned into some other distractions. Not sure when I posted the quote.

But I had intended to ask Matto for some conformation for his story about the revulsion of the students in that High school class.

[Matto]

What if one of one's convictions is that it is sinful to fight?

Well he's got to fight to defend that conviction. A conviction not worth defending is no conviction at all.