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BaptistLife.Com Forums. • View topic - Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

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Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Postby Gene Scarborough » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:18 pm

Dr. Finn has just written a history of SEBTS from it's beginning to the present:

The four parts included in his blog are divided by time frames: Start-Lolley years / Lolley / Patterson / Akin to present.

My comments on each can be found, but to simplify here they are:

The beginning section is basically factual with nothing noteworthy.

Lolley years: I find this segment to imply the faculty was only “moderate,” when I was a student in 1967-70 and closely related to the Seminary (1986-1990) as their representative with Ministers Life Insurance Company.

As a salesman with “no ax to grind” or I would immediately not be able to sell our products, I assumed the attitude of “silent observer.”

My personal knowledge of Leo Green / John Wayland / Thomas Bland to just name a few, is of men with conservative theological views doing their job of presenting the entire picture of church and theology. Dr. Bland, for one, started the Urban Studies Seminar and I was in the first.

It was a practical survey of churches and denominations in and around Wake County. It was a-political. I never in public or private heard any of these 3 plus others utter a word against CR.

I recommend you go down the list of faculty at the time and clearly cite how many were “liberal” vs. How many were just plain well-educated men of God with an education to give their students so that we might be fair and balanced in our understanding of religion.

Your characterization of Randall Lolley is totally skewed as you imply he was a “liberal.” He was a Pastor’s Pastor and brought the best years of practical theology and “being Baptist” to the Seminary.

Further, you fail to show how much the student body decreased after he left as well as the academic problems generated for the SACS accrediting agency. For a while they almost lost accreditation for reasons of Administrative activities of the Trustees.

Patterson years: This segment reflects a "golden dream" view of SEBTS. You have relied too heavily on the publications of the Seminary for it.

Some realities:

1) In the face of published statistics of great enrollment, I journeyed to the campus to do a photographic recording of pictures of all classrooms at the most popular class hour--11:00 Tuesday. That strip of film I will gladly share with you. It shows about 80% of all those new and old classrooms---EMPTY.

2) You fail to cite the academic background of the new faculty---most from places such as Liberty University, etc. It reflects an unbalanced faculty in the face of one which could not be characterized as you imply to be "liberal."

3) Also in previous years any student matriculating without additional fees had to be recommended by his local SBC church. I was not allowed any access to student files to determine how many were non-SBC.

4) In private conversations around the Library and across campus I often asked, "And what church are you from." The answer given by a vast majority indicated students from Liberty U / Bob Jones / Pat Robertson's University / etc. My personal observation was Patterson drew students from all the conservative schools with which he had a connection.

5) The alumni magazines I continued to receive were about 60% a publication lauding Dr. Patterson over the courses being taught and books being written by faculty.

I viewed it as "President worship" which had never been a part of the alumni magazine before.

Akin to present: Dr. Finn--I think I would be unfair if I did not congratulate you for encapsulating the history of SEBTS. In toto, I think you have done a fair job with the restrictions of a busy schedule and minimal time to prepare these summations.

I remember from my BSU days a wonderful trip to SEBTS for the Student Conference where some 500 came from all over the southeast to visit. It was my first introduction to the campus, having been the year before to Southern for their Student Conference.

Clarence Jordan who founded Koinonia Farms in Americus, GA, was the featured speaker. His vision was the basis for Habitat for Humanity and the "Cotton Patch Gospels." I was inspired enough to seek admission in the fall of 1967.

I had seen for myself a true "liberal" in Thomas J.J. Altizer doing his"God is Dead" stuff as I was President of the Emory University BSU in 1966-67. Perhaps that is why I an very hesitant to label any SEBTS professor I knew as "liberal."

As far as facilities and numbers of students go, there has been a great amount of growth and modernization. It is sad that Hurricane Fran virtually destroyed the magnolias of the campus where I attended. It was far more "Southern" than it is today, but life goes on.

In the same way as Fran changed the campus, Conservative Resurgence had transformed the outlook and theological tenor of what is there today.

I won't categorize it as better or worse---just changed. Time will be the judge of "better or worse."

I wish you well in your endeavors. Given more time, you might choose to add some things I have shared. Should you choose to do so, I would be glad to help as well as many other graduates so you might have a truly full picture of SEBTS to present.

From its beginnings with old and somewhat dilapidated buildings to its magnificent present our school has had great impact on lives. The number of missionaries is astounding and the reach is great with Pastors and educated laity as well--from the beginning. :brick:
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Re: Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Postby Gene Scarborough » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:11 pm

Sorry the same piece posted twice = so much for the plodding uptake of the 1st.

If anyone knows how to get rid of this second repeat-----please do so. Stupid me!!!! :lol:
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Re: Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Postby Ed Pettibone » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:47 pm

Ed Pettibone: Gene, In each of you post you should see blocks in the upper right corner that say [edit] [x] [!] [quote]

In one or the other of your duplicated post you may click on the [x] and get a screen asking if you want to delete that post. Say yes and it will disappear. Only you and/or the moderators have this option.
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Re: Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Postby Gene Scarborough » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:30 pm

Thanks, ED--you're a better couputer geek than me = I justs cuss after a while!
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Re: Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Postby Gene Scarborough » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:33 pm

It worked---and Ed and God helped me save my religion. With snow leaving and the ground too wet to work on it, I only have blogging to keep me out of trouble!

Thanks, ED!!!
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Fox comments on Finn's 50's SEBTS

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:43 pm

"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
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Sept 2009 Southern Seminary in Baps Today

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:39 pm

Page 24

Scroll down and read this review. Could help Nathan Finn with his homework, his perspective:

http://www.baptiststoday.org/storage/ar ... 009_09.pdf
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
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Re: Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Postby Gene Scarborough » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:19 am

Steve--

I have dialogued with Nathan Finn over at SBC Voices. I find him convinced he is right and he appears not to be open to any other interpretation. He redacted the case of N. Rocky Mount Baptist Church which I pastored. I have offered him copies of the transcript from the Nash County Courthouse, but he has no interest in such. He preferrs his own "little nest of knowledge."

Beware the redactors of history---especially when they own the presses on which it is printed and the bookstores in which they are sold at cheap prices to gullable members of SBC churches!

The wise person looks behind the scenes and searches for his own truths which eye and mind reveal to those who will look and experience the history of Baptists known to those of us who participatd pre-1979.
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Re: Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Postby Ed Pettibone » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:11 am

Gene S. writes "Beware the redactors of history---especially when they own the presses on which it is printed and the bookstores in which they are sold at cheap prices to gullable members of SBC churches!

The wise person looks behind the scenes and searches for his own truths which eye and mind reveal to those who will look and experience the history of Baptists known to those of us who participatd pre-1979.

Ed: Cheap prices? When did Life Way change the pricing policies in place when the book stores operated by the SS board where simply
BAPTIST BOOK STORE even prior to 1979. I will barrow a phrase from Kirby Godsey "Lets be honest", prior to 79, even SS materials from our own presses where not priced to be competitive with Standard Publishing and other independent publishers, therefore many churches used materials from those publishers of literature that was more generic. And I believe, thus opend some doors for the take over.
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Re: Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Postby Gene Scarborough » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:37 am

Ed--

Interesting observations. My experience with BBS was that their prices were cheaper compared with more general public bookstores. As a matter of fact publishers like Word / Zondervan / etc. have always tended to make religious publishing about 30% cheaper than places like Barnes & Noble. Interesting how they now call themselves "Lifeway" rather than BBS!

As an SBC Staff Member / Pastor I never used other literature until it became so fundy. Smythe & Helwys has always been about equal and puts out a great line of more circumspect SS literature. They should be added to the above list of publishers.

I have found throughout my life that most books can be check for publication source to find out what they are before you buy or bother to read them. I am somewhat open minded and even have Paul Pressler's "Hill To Die On" on my shelf. I check out the Tea Party stuff too because I want to know, first hand, what the idiots (in my opinion) are pumping!!!
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Re: Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Postby Ed Pettibone » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:04 pm

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Re: Nathan Finn writes a somewhat redacted history of SEBTS

Postby Gene Scarborough » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:28 pm

Right on ED!!!!

My dad had a monster library for his sermon studies. Most good preachers need them. It killed my soul when I had to downsize, but I gave the good stuff to a young minister I knew and a man who cuts my hair and is trying to be a good Bible scholar.

My dad always said, "You will never be greater than the good preachers you read and follow. Take their ideas since they shared them, add yours to theirs, do a sermon which makes a difference with your congregation!"

He also advised me that any sermon worth preaching once can be preached some 20 times to become really good. If it wasn't good the first time than throw it in the trash and forget it.

His second great word to me was, "All sermons have 3 takes: (1) How I preached it, (2) how I wished I had preached it, (3) how I adapt it to meet the current needs of this week in my church." I thought that was pretty good!!!! He was the best I ever heard and even when I was bored as a child, I tuned in when he started telling a good story to illustrate!!!
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Possibility of Balmer and Worthen on SEBTS campus

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu May 22, 2014 11:12 am

Within the year.

If happens promises to be sweet time in Jesus indeed.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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