Baptists and the American Civil War (A New Website)

[Gene Scarborough]

I hope you see I am not denying that slavery was a common denominator with Secession.

I just think we need to realize there were other factors as well----which still exist today!!!!

Just because we fought an awful war to "end slavery" does not mean it is really ended. Lessons learned from the past are easily forgotten and rear their ugly head when man decides he can build his kingdom on the backs of other's toil and sweat.

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Tim--

I just let each tub sit on its own bottom!

Sometimes I come off as a moderaate and, when it come to the South, I can be as much of a red neck as anyone!

Forgive me if I seem inconsistent, but us humans----"we be crazy!!!"

[Jim]

[Gene Scarborough]

Brother--I ALWAYS speak for myself---and take full responsibility for such!

Far as I know, I'm not crazy but honest as best I can be.

[Stephen Fox]

Will not hurt any of you to google Izzes' Warmth of Other Suns.

Grand captivativating read. Timothy Bonney, Gourley and Scarborough can all learn a lot from this one as have I.

[Stephen Fox]

And her easily googled TOP Ten book on several lists for 2010, The Warmth of Other Suns.

I have been captivated the last three days.

And doesn't hurt her Mother to whom she makes several references in the book was raised at Thankful Baptist Church in North Rome Ga; about five miles from Grandmother, and about a mile from young woman who married a cousin.

[Gene Scarborough]

[Stephen Fox]

Isabel Wilkerson's The Warmth of Other Suns.

He has found some paragraph in a review or blurb or something.

This book nominated for National Book of the Year, even though Scarborough is most likely just funnin; is much bigger than a quote out of context.

Things we Left Behind chapter is about Gibbon Street in Rome, Ga. And both Gene and I know folks with roots in Rome, Georgia.

[Gene Scarborough]

Well, Foxy----why don't you fill us in??????

Frankly I get tired of you being the research director and then complaining if the research doesn't say what you want it to say----So-o-o-o-o, for a change, tell us what think professor!!!

[Stephen Fox]

you should read the book. In no way does it support a contention slavery moved to the North. You do a disservice to this great work messing with it's edification.

[Gene Scarborough]

Steve--

That is NON-ANSWER!! It is a contention on your part that blacks moving North have not been treated like slaves = little opportunity to excape poverty / no real will to do so / Welfare provides the same roof over their head so they are content to ignore the chains and shackles of poverty / corporate America profiting by slave labor---now exported to Dollar-a-day foreign labor.

Did you see the ABC News continuing story this week? They went to an American home and took out everything not made in the USA. It was virtually empty. They then went out and bought replacement stuff clearly made in the USA. They found the USA made newly furnished home equally attractive / equally fine, if not better, with quality / many of the USA made items were actually cheaper than foreign made stuff.

Now, tell me again about there being a lack of slavery today?????????? This white boy of the South is "enjoying" an outstandingly good tree surgery business making 30% of what it did 4 years ago----because Corporate America is the new Carpetbagger and they own Congress which continues to distibute our taxpayer money to the Massahs and not to us new slaves!!! I stand by my contention that the South of the mid-1800's felt used and abused and cried, "We want to be independent of northern control."

I rest my case.

[Jim]

[Gene Scarborough]

Not sure whether we are agreeing or disagreeing. We are citing some of the same suff though.

I don't think we really have a clue whether we have a democracy / socialism / or somewhere in between. We certainly have a mess!!!!

I sat on the LBJ first Title XX Project Committee in SC back in the early 70's. I was Pastor of the FBC Bishopville, SC, and the white hospital administrator asked me to be one of 2 representing Lee County. The 5-county Santee-Wateree district was our location and it encompassed Sumpter / Camden / Florence / etc. It is near the famous Darlington Raceway.

We had several millions to distribute and fund programs like free transport for medical services / free housekeeper once a week / food stamps /etc. I asked the Federal representative a couple of questions as we started: (1) Can you tell me what part of a dollar paid in taxes in this area comes back to us after the bureaucracy is paid for handling it? (2) Assuming we are a blessed country which should care for its most disadvantaged citizens, should we put in any program which makes a person want to continue on welfare?

The first question he could not answer, but I suspect we are lucky to get back 40-60 cents of that dollar in services. The second has been answered in the, now, 4th generation of Welfare recipients---not that many have opted out with hard work and a significan advantage in minority hiring rules. We are on a dead end of continued self-imposed slavery. Too many enjoy being slaves of welfare or their own lack of motivation to advance in society. It is a sad story of the greatest opportunity society on this earth proving what Jesus said, "The poor are with us always." Sadly too, some enjoy sitting on the porch doing nothing more than getting fat!

With respect to "southern economy" let me invite you to visit Rocky Mount, NC, which in the 80's used to be a great place to live and raise kids. Now---every large manufacturing facility is closed and moved out of country / drugs and crime rule / welfare is a way of life in the hood / I wish I could find a few people of color willing to work for me at fair wages over sitting and selling drugs. I have had employees break into my house / sell drugs to a new employee who stole my truck---and all my equipement on it was traded for drugs as he made his way to western Pennsylvania. I'm not whining, but trying to tell you the truth about modern slavery in my world. Do you live in this real world or pastor some church somewhere "safe?"

[Jim]

There’s a huge difference between a slave and a parasite. The government has invited parasites to survive at the pleasure of the taxpayers, but it has not coerced them to do so. They have a choice, but the citizenry doesn’t have a choice. Our lawmakers have decided to redistribute the gains of the producers to the parasites, not the slaves, of which there are none. The actual needy deserve help. The parasites, recognizing parasitism as a way of life unto the fourth and fifth generations, have simply found a good thing.

[Gene Scarborough]

Is it possible the slaves had "found a good thing?"

Their living quarters on the Plantation and in a new land, had it been run by one of the majority of decent slave owners, could have been better than a hunter's existence when they were the hunted by competing tribes in Africa.

I'm not excusing or justifying slavery, but human nature has not really changed from the dawn of Creation. People have used other people to have a more comfortable existence with a minimum of work. Your "parasites" are doing the same and---by their own hand---enslave themselves to obesity / diabetes / crime / drugs / unwed motherhood / etc.

Another dimension is Corporate America enslaving average citizens with false documents and figures of real worth of investments / pay off of regulators / election of officials who do their bidding / etc. Did you lose 40% of your portfolio backing retirement income as did most older citizens? If so, you are a slave as well!!!

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/ne ... 7775.story

Recently in Baptists Today and other places Bruce Gourley has placed emphasis on Baptist Nationalism as a significant aspect of the Great National Sin that precipitated the Civil War. He explores the nuances.

Inherently Unequal shades the problem toward a secular Darwinist view in Powerful places in the GOP that drifted away from Lincoln.

I heard Reviewer Steve Oney in person at Furman last fall speak about his magisterial And the Dead Shall Rise about the lynching of Leo Frank.

For the record Marshall Frady's last review in the NY Rev Books was about Oney's book.

Hope these references and anecdotes may inflect some of Gourley's presentations on the matter

[Stephen Fox]

While waiting on the power to come back on after the tornado last weekend spent lot time in the car listening to the radio.
Caught a morning chat April 30 or 29 on 83.5 fm of Rome Georgia. Civl War Reenactor was talking about the Rome, Ga regiment in some battles in Virginia in early days of the War and how the Hand of God was working among the troops. Made Reference to a conversation with Larry Draper, Jerry Vines Successor at West Rome, Baptist Church and last great epoch of Revivals in America spawned from the Civil War.
Thought it was fascinating. Was wondering if the Revenant of the WRGA FM Station where Baptists Today Editor John Pierce alma mattred at Berry was aware of Baptized in Blood.

Thought Gourley may find this tidbit interesting.

http://www.wrgarome.com/calendar/upcoming_events.php

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen ... ne/239724/

Goebbels big fan of Gone with the Wind

[Stephen Fox]

http://riley.furman.edu/riley/legacy-ci ... vil-rights

[Tom Butler]

Bruce, I have bookmarked your site because I will have to return to it again and again work my way through the content. Since one of my great-grandfathers fought for the Confederacy, and I have a picture of him in his uniform (several years after the war ended), I have more than just a passing interest. Thanks for your work in putting the site together.

[Gene Scarborough]

I shall never forget the day my Great Grandmother Williams told of remembering her father coming home from the Civil War. He was a Robinson from Pickens County, SC.

I grew up in Atlanta and then served the Noonday Baptist Church in the 80's where the "Battle of Noonday Creek" took place as one of the last defensive battles took place when Sherman attacked Atlanta. The other great last stand place was Kennesaw Mountain just outside Marietta and overlooking Dobbins AFB. They are still doing some digs there. The memorabilia dug up is interesting to see.

Across the area from Kennesaw is Stone Mountain---easily visible from Kennesaw. The probably had communications posts on both mountains. Walking around Stone Mountain you find inscriptions chiseled into the stone from the Civil War era. It is still a hot spot for CW memorabilia in the Village of Stone Mountain.

When they show the scenes in GWTW of the burning of Atlanta, it still gets to me. Northern soldiers had absolutely no respect for the fine buildings and homes around the South which they gladly burned. It's history dated to the Land Grant era as the first patritions from England began to cultivate the New World and hack out their inheritance.

The greatest hurt put on the South was the takeover of plantations by people who had no concept of what it took to bring crops out of the ground. The hurts ran deep when one loses everything they worked a lifetime to develope.

This should translate to a better understanding of our actions to take over countries we want to control! The same is true of situations between Israel and the Palestenians.

[Bruce Gourley]

[Bruce Gourley]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: I have said previously that until rather recently I had not heard a lot about the Civil war in this part of the country but had learned that New York was indeed heavily invested in that conflict.

And Now we at the Burnt Hills Baptist Church have agree to host a commemoration event which will be held Saturday 7/30/11 from 9:00 AM till 1:00 PM
We where invited to host this event, as the oldest active church in the community. The Episcopal church was active here also during that period, but the Methodist church was not. And while the Catholic Church did have itenerate ministries in the area at the time of the Civil War, neither of the present day nearby Catholic churches had been established at that time. There was not only a Baptist presence but the Sanctuary portion of our building (***) was here and I believe the Episcopal Sanctuary was also, (7/29/11 - I have confirmed that the Episcopal Church building, dates to 1848). Our building was first used n 1840 although it was not completed until 1842. The congregation was formed in 1783, The Civil War Commemoration event is being staged by a local historian who has done several similar events in surrounding communities.

He will be lecturing and will conduct interviews with individuals who have stories to tell. Their will also be a presentation geared for children, by MR. Twisty a balloon artist. ??? I have to get batteries for Trudy's camera.

(***) see the picture on page 35 in the July issue of Baptists Today.