Bill Leonard in Kentucky (on Revivalism)

[Bruce Gourley]

Bill Leonard is headlining the upcoming annual conference of the Baptist History and Heritage Society, June 3-5 in Georgetown, Kentucky.

The conference theme is .

I know we have some Leonard fans here in the forums, and maybe even some SBCers - in the midst of the prolonged evangelistic slump in SBC life - could use a refresher on the larger story of Baptists and revivalism.

[Dave Roberts]

Interesting possibilities. Leonard has never disappointed me when I've heard him.

[Stephen Fox]

See if you can raise money for my screenplay on the matter; one in development since 2002 about which my collaborator and I had hr long discussion with Randall Balmer and he recognized our genius.
I need some walking around money, even 8 years later to implement it.

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.baylorpress.com/en/Book/51/T ... alism.html

Hoping Gourley or Aaron Weaver will have a review for us here soon

[Samuel]

Does one have to have a reservation to attend? I'll may Georgetown from Charleston, WV.

I have friends in the SBC as Evangelists. One of ~44 yrs and another maybe forever....;-D Charles 'Toonie' Cash and Walter St Clair respectively. Great preacher and great men of God proclaiming the gospel. Walter has started 25 churches abroad and typically went into the lepar colonies preaching the gospel. One church last year celebrated its 25th yr.

Although I am not in a SBC church one must remember they hold to 'local' church doctrine and have traditional Baptist heritage.

[Bruce Gourley]

[Samuel]

Thank you. Oddly I have Leonard's as relations - distant; sure he's not one of them. If I'm in the area I'll try to make it.

Baptist history goes back to the Apostles; why is it posted only as 401 yrs?

[Bruce Gourley]

[Samuel]

Being labeled heretic by catholics is an honor. So many were killed and even Polycarp and Tertullian defended them or some even before the catholic church came on the scene. Paterines, Montanists, Novationists and Anabaptist were labeled but being labeled by religionists or the heretic doesn't make one a heretic.

The one's calling them heretic were often killing real Christians. Some put the catholics at 150,000,000 deaths of the saints.

This is documented history and traceable.

[Tom Butler]

Greetings, been a while since I've visited. i'll just welcome myself back.

One does not have to buy the whole Landmark package. Some Landmark views are worth having.

I, for instance, hold to Baptist Perpetuity--that is, that there have always been true New Testament churches. I do so because Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church.

i won't argue Baptist successionism because the evidence for it is not as substantial. Oh, i believe it's possible, even likely, just not provable.

But i do argue Baptist kinship. That is, i claim kinship to those apostolic and first-century churches, as well as those believers in second-century Britain. I also claim kinship to those believers in Wales, Scotland and Africa, among others.

And Baptists were around before the Reformation.

This is probably a subject for another separate thread, but I did want Samuel to know he wasn't alone in his opinions.

[Haruo]

Welcome back, yourself!

[Gene Scarborough]

Part of our "revivalism" is to get a bigger church off a bigger ego.

I remember a Study Course in Training Union---which dates me to the 50's! It was on the history of Baptists and claimed we came before other groups and dated back to John the Baptist----which trumps Jesus since John baptized him. It was triumphalism at it's best!

Later, in Seminary, I realized it was the Landmark (Trail of Blood) influence and generated from Texas---so that says a lot! Even Baptists get the drug of "bigger and better" if it comes from Texas!

Having pastored the Noonday Baptist Church with its original minutes dating to 1833 and laminated and preserved by the GA Archives, I was able to take a look at common practices of Frontier Religion before the days of many formal courts and justice in the civic area of our growing country.

In that era, Revivals were sometimes called "Protracted Meetings." That meant they had a week set aside and voted at the end of week whether to extend it or not. It was the only time of the year when church membership was open to those who walked the aisles. For proper community trust one had to be "in good standing" with the churches prevailing in the area.

One of the most protracted Revivals resulting in many coming forward was preceeded by the kicking out of a lady accused of low morals. Anyone with common sense could read between the lines. She had been happily "visited" by many men in the community. The fat hit the fan and "church justice" prevailed. Now, what do all these men do----except put on a big show of religious furvor to convince their wives they had "got re-lig-eun!"

[Rvaughn]

[Haruo]

And welcome back to Rvaughn, too! It's like Old Home Week.

[Gene Scarborough]

It has been since the 80's that I read the minutes so I'm a little fuzzy on it. I think you are right about the Conference opening the doors to membership. Now, every Sunday is ended with an Invitation to "walk the aisle."

Speaking of Texas---there is a Noonday, Texas, outside Tyler. The man who founded it had his current relatives drop by Noonday one day to check out the Church Minutes. Their ancestor was the Church Clerk prior to the Civil War. He left as Sherman's army was marching on Atlanta from the north. The "Battle of Noonday Creek" was one of the last ones before they continued to Atlanta, some 15 miles south.

We visited on the way to Houston for the "Battle of CR Takeover." I was to preach, but got laryngitis to the point I could only make my apologies and a few words of appreciation that Noonday was renewed in Texas.

Small world! The minutes confirmed what they had been told about their ancestor!

[Bruce Gourley]

Regarding early 19th century Baptist church membership in the South: most Baptist churches of that era opened the doors for membership once a month and during revival meetings. The "Walking the aisle" for membership was typically reserved for revival services at that time.

[Gene Scarborough]

Thanks, Bruce.

It was most interesting for me to see how times have changed since then.

It seemed to be a time of religious exclusivism even between the Baptists / Methodists / Presbyterians who seemed to be most plenteous in the South.

The thing which seems to continue is non-stop argument about details of theology!

[Rvaughn]

Thanks, Haruo. Noonday (TX) is about an hour from me, but I'm not familiar with the church. I have read some historical information about the early Baptist churches, but I mean I have no personal knowledge of the church.

Concerning joining the church, "walking the aisle", etc., it seems to me that our area churches went through a progression. Originally the bulk of members joined during the conference when "the doors of the church were opened." As it progressed, it became more common to get members via "protracted meetings" (later revivals). I'd guess (very rough guess) in a number of churches, especially rural ones, during the 30s-60s that about the only time they received members were during the revivals. Then things would change again and there would be the kind of altar calls, pressure, invitations or whatever that would take place during the weekly Sunday morning service and so members would be just as likely any time of the year. As far as "walking the aisle", in earlier days here it would more likely be coming to a mourner's bench than just walking up and talking to the preacher.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Bruce Gourley]

[Gene Scarborough]

When I served the N. Rocky Mount Baptist Church, its history was just like Ed described. Whatever itenerate preacher came through allowed them to hold a service. Every Sunday had Sunday School.

In their case a family in the chuch preferred the Southern Baptist SS literature and that ultimately led to them making their choice to affiliate with Southern Baptists.

How much you wanna bet that same family gave a lot (or pretended to) into the offering plate!

[Rvaughn]

There may be some connection between the availability of preachers and the fact of conference (business meetings) once a month. But I think generally, at least by the mid to late 1800s, this would be two different things (but could depend on geography as well). The church where I grew up in East Texas was started in 1873. They had preaching once a month and also conference once a month up until probably the 1940s. At some point in the early 1900s, they started having Sunday School every Sunday, but preaching still monthly. It only occurred once a month, but was pretty much an all weekend affair. The preaching and conference coincided, but were not necessarily dependent on one another. Conference was held faithfully and dutifully regardless of presence or availability of a preacher. Since we were discussing "opening the doors of the church", I thought some of you might find interesting the order of business from the rules of decorum of Mt. Carmel Baptist Church, Rusk County, TX (Const. ca. 1856). This was the common order for our churches.

"The moderator shall call the items of conference in the following order.
First. Invite visiting brethren to seats with us.
Second. Open the door for the reception of members.
Third. Call for reasons of absence.
Fourth. Acknowledgements of misconduct.
Fifth. For references.
Sixth. For maters of dealings.
Seventh. General business, reading of the minutes and adjournment."

Our church and other denominations shared the same building for a number of years under the monthly preaching arrangement. In some cases I have found there were union churches, but in most cases in our area these were distinct organizations that simply shared the building.

[Gene Scarborough]

Great deatails and reflective of the old South Baptists at Noonday!!!

What amazes me is that in frontier days and poor communication how Baptists seemed to find a common thread.

[Neil Heath]

Back in the 80's I knew of a very small community that had a Baptist church and a Methodist church. Both had SS every week, but they each had preaching twice a month. So two Sundays a month they all worshiped at the Baptist church, and two Sundays they worshiped at the Methodist church. When the Baptist church burned, rather than just merge, they rebuilt it and went on with things as always.

[Gene Scarborough]

Churches are like mom and pop stores / eateries----each unique and, unlike WalMart, no lines at the registers and someone to help you when needed!!!!