Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Preaches

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Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Preaches

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:15 pm

https://revroblee.com/2017/08/13/the-pr ... ilent-god/

He Was on NPR Sunday morning. Read the transcript here and his sermon in link above.

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544817830 ... ium=social

He is a friend of Jack Causey who was at FBC Gaffney when my Dad was at Bethany in same town in 62-78

Collinsville pastor John Morgan had two sons grads of UVA and one at Duke; Another a stepson of sorts Casey Mattox is UVA grad and with Alliance Defending Freedom in DC. Morgan dismissed the whole Confederate Monuments matter, Charlottesville and Trump flippantly according to reports Sunday morning here where my Mother was baptized.

I hope some members of the congregation become familiar with Lee and his sermon.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:07 pm

I saw some of these reports several days ago. As a genealogist I was bumfuzzled that that they said Robert Wright Lee was a nephew and a direct descendant of Robert E. Lee. (Now I know some trees like that, but it appears in this case Rob Lee is a nephew rather than a direct descendant, unless direct descendant means something else to other people.)

Interesting, nevertheless.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Haruo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:54 pm

I think the time lapse is sufficient to allow for a person to be simultaneously a (several greats-) nephew and a direct (greats-grand) descendant of General Lee. Don't know all the ins and outs of this particular guy's genealogy, but while nephews per se and not direct descendants per se, there is nothing to preclude a single person being both with respect to a single ancestor. Even though it may require breaking laws limiting blood relationship in certain jurisdictions.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:56 pm

While it is possible he could be a g-g-g-g-g nephew and a g-g-g-g-g grandson (or whatever), the odd thing was that the two articles I saw that said he was a direct descendant never mentioned anything other than him being a nephew (which was what made me wonder if they knew what a direct descendant is).
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Haruo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:08 pm

I think you are probably right about that. Some people probably think if there's a term for the relationship then it must be direct (assuming folks in this category haven't heard of shirttail).
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby William Thornton » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:22 am

Probably newsworthy but in error, Fox's error in the title this topic. If he actually read stuff he would find many REL direct descendants who favor moving statues.

"Direct" requires a line by children. "Non-direct" can use nephews, nieces, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc....or "collateral" relatives. There are many direct descendants of R. E. Lee.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:33 am

Yes, and probably R. E. Lee himself would favor moving the statues. Apparently he did not favor putting them up in the first place.

(BTW, while it is interesting to know what descendants or relatives of those on the statues think, I don't know that they are more qualified to discuss the issue than anyone else.)
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Sandy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:06 pm

Interesting story. Great sermon.

I recently started searching through my genealogy, now that I am close to my parents' childhood homes. I don't know that there's much that is shared in terms of ideology or faith with your ancestors, though I guess it can be interesting when the ancestor is well known, and the descendant takes an opposite position.

I'm more fascinated by the fact that Lee was married to Mary Anna Custis, the great-granddaughter of Martha Custis Washington, and daughter of George Washington's step-grandson and namesake George Washington Parke Custis. It was actually her parents' mansion, Arlington, that she and Lee inherited, and which, during the Civil War and the union occupation, was turned into Arlington Cemetery. It would be interesting to get beyond the brief written history to find out exactly what the Custis family, and the Washingtons, thought about Lee's decision to support a state rebellion against the United States. Mrs. Lee apparently had strong feelings, and advocated for emancipation, in addition to encouraging her husband to remain loyal to the union, but his influence prevented her from emancipating their slaves, and of course we know his decision regarding military service.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Haruo » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:26 pm

I'm wondering how the Augusta Academy is weathering this storm.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:21 pm

Sandy wrote:Mrs. Lee apparently had strong feelings, and advocated for emancipation, in addition to encouraging her husband to remain loyal to the union, but his influence prevented her from emancipating their slaves...
Do you mean the slaves of her father, George Washington Parke Custis? Custis's will gave freedom to the slaves, which Lee as executor of the will had to accomplish within 5 years of Custis's death.
And upon the legacies to my four granddaughters being paid, and my estates that are required to pay the said legacies, being clear of debts, then I give freedom to my slaves, the said slaves to be emancipated by my executors in such manner as to my executors may seem most expedient and proper, the said emancipation to be accomplished in not exceeding five years from the time of my decease.

http://www.nathanielturner.com/willofgeorgewashingtonparkecustis.htm
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Randy Newman wrote a song for Thornton

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:12 am

The Lester Maddox song to put it politely.

Not only did I hear the story on NPR and read the transcript, I friended the fellow the next day. He teaches at Appy state and we have a lot of avenues to pursue including Wahalla SC native and Citadel Grad Mark Powell and his friend Pollock who wrote the Devil All The Time. Ive read novels by both and Thornton is delinquent on posting his this years reading list.

At same time there is some triangulation under way for a scholar in residence initiative. If it takes traction Thornton could enhance his reading list and learn a lot there, but it's hard to break through a thick headed skull who thinks Jerry Vines and Randall Lolley are equal fulcrum balance. Which gets us into the arena of Trump's false equivocation, Gray Allison, Falwell Jr etc and the facebook page where the folks are turning in their diplomas.

Which is something Thornton shoulda done along with WYDE and Yellowhammer News' Andrea Tice a long time ago. Send it back to Luther Rice!!!!!


Love ya bro, but don't mess with my reading list.

BTW, Vernon Burton of Furman and Clemson and Andy Young have the high ground on the Monuments and Ive told Duke's Curtis Freeman and Tim Tyson as much.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby William Thornton » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:27 am

What reading list? All I see is the name dropping list.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Sandy » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:29 pm

Rvaughn wrote:
Sandy wrote:Mrs. Lee apparently had strong feelings, and advocated for emancipation, in addition to encouraging her husband to remain loyal to the union, but his influence prevented her from emancipating their slaves...
Do you mean the slaves of her father, George Washington Parke Custis? Custis's will gave freedom to the slaves, which Lee as executor of the will had to accomplish within 5 years of Custis's death.
And upon the legacies to my four granddaughters being paid, and my estates that are required to pay the said legacies, being clear of debts, then I give freedom to my slaves, the said slaves to be emancipated by my executors in such manner as to my executors may seem most expedient and proper, the said emancipation to be accomplished in not exceeding five years from the time of my decease.

http://www.nathanielturner.com/willofgeorgewashingtonparkecustis.htm


I'm not sure exactly. There were slaves at Arlington, apparently, who weren't part of the emancipation brought about by GWP Custis. Whether those were slaves brought there by Lee when he became master of the plantation, or belonged specifically to Mary Anna, or whether Lee prevented those he inherited from Custis, who were entitled to emancipation in his will.
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Headline on Rob Lee's facebook wall

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:38 pm

It says William Thornton wouldn't know a reading list from a Hole in the Ground.

Actually full page above the fold picture of Bobby Lee on Stone Mtn, in the Mtn Times of Boone NC big headling, "Direct Descendant" of Bobby Lee makes national news. That is the hometown paper of Appy State so I imagine they know the meaning of direct descendant.

Between Lee's colleage Mark Powell and his friend Pollock I think they may figger some things out this academic year at Appy State. Sure would be nice if Billy Thornton could join em and learn a few things to share with Jerry Vines!
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Re: Headline on Rob Lee's facebook wall

Postby William Thornton » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:32 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:It says William Thornton wouldn't know a reading list from a Hole in the Ground.

Actually full page above the fold picture of Bobby Lee on Stone Mtn, in the Mtn Times of Boone NC big headling, "Direct Descendant" of Bobby Lee makes national news. That is the hometown paper of Appy State so I imagine they know the meaning of direct descendant.

Between Lee's colleage Mark Powell and his friend Pollock I think they may figger some things out this academic year at Appy State. Sure would be nice if Billy Thornton could join em and learn a few things to share with Jerry Vines!


Have you, Stephen, ever dug a hole in the ground or just in online arguments?

Have read three bios of 1k pages each the last month or so. None of this frivolity and name dropping for me, bro.
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Willie's bios

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:11 pm

Name them bro. Not calling your bluff just like to know what interests you this year.
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Re: Willie's bios

Postby William Thornton » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:10 am

Stephen Fox wrote:Name them bro. Not calling your bluff just like to know what interests you this year.


WWII interest: Goebbels, Himmler, and the lesser known Heydrich.

A 20th century revolutionary whom, if you guess, I'll buy you lunch. Give you three guesses.
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Rob Lee resigns his NC UCC congregation

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:24 pm

There is a story in the Wash Post.

Meanwhile my Dad's friend Colin Harris from days of their mutual great friend David Bookout at Druid Hills BC in Atlanta in the 60s speaks sensibly and prophetically about Stone Mtn. Harris son teaches Math at Furman

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/what-to-do-w ... -cms-24322

As for Willie Tee, come over and meet my good friend a PHD from the Collinsville Flea Market and UAH who has written extensively about Hitler Youth and has an article coming soon to be published in a WWII mag about a woman whose brow was touched by Adolf himself.

As for my next book, it will be Sidney Blumenthal's second installment on Lincoln of a four part series. Sid was on Ga NPR On Point last week and has Pressler's number in re Coke Stevenson and LBJ and the 48 US senate Race in Texas. Second book is about Lincoln in the 1850s and how he navigated the Know Nothings, like Randall Lolley tried in the mid 1980s in North Carolina with Jerry Vines and Gray Allison and that bunch.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:08 pm

William Thornton wrote:"Direct" requires a line by children. "Non-direct" can use nephews, nieces, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc....or "collateral" relatives. There are many direct descendants of R. E. Lee.

Robert E. Lee’s Descendant Leaves Church After Denouncing White Supremacy
My presence at the church as a descendent of Robert E. Lee and an outspoken opponent of white supremacy had already attracted attention, but with my appearance on MTV the media’s focus on my church reached an all time high.
Apparently this nephew himself doesn't understand he is not a descendant of Robert E. Lee, or else he is fudging the truth for his own benefit of notability. I guess another option could be that they are wrong about his being a nephew -- though the linked articles says he is a fourth-great-nephew of Robert E. Lee. Maybe some journalists also need to take a course in genealogy?
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Haruo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:32 am

I would call him a descendant, but a collateral one.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:25 pm

You are correct that he is a collateral descendant. (I prefer collateral relative as less confusing, but collateral descendant is not wrong.) Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this way, but using descendant without the adjective "collateral" as least strongly implies you are talking about a lineal descendant -- and is probably how any average reader would take it. IMO, the nephew and press are playing up "descendant of Robert E. Lee" to make him or his opinion seem more important than it actually is.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Haruo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:29 pm

Agreed. I am a collateral descendant of Daniel Boone, and I proudly misuse that fact to claim Native American ancestry. I am, I aver, "1/256th Adopted Collateral Absentee Shawnee". My 7-greats-uncle Dan'l was at one point forcibly adopted into the Shawnee, or at least so I was taught as a kid. It's not enough to get me Indian Health Service free medical, but oh well.
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Lee on the View Monday with Whoopi

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:56 pm

You fellows waste a lot of time on a perfectly timely post arguing about the jot and Tittles of the word Descendant.

Meanwhile Rob Lee was on the View. I watched with a racist Canadian in a burger joint in NE Bama; but he is my friend, only fellow I ever met who knew Uncle Fremont's joke about the half a head of lettuce before I told it.

On the whole maybe a better American than Joy Behar, but not Whoopi and Lee.
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Re: Robert E Lee and Charlottesville; Direct descendant Prea

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:26 pm

Well, Stephen, it is a History forum, a free forum and a free country! :D
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Re: Lee on the View Monday with Whoopi

Postby Haruo » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:49 am

Stephen Fox wrote: ...but not Whoopi and Lee.
Lee who?
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