Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

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My blog dipped below 5,000 in late May

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed May 31, 2017 7:05 am

I think I will quote Sandy maybe as early as Friday for a new blog to get my numbers back up in the 5,750 range where I was hovering most of the month.

I need a good reason to celebrate (ha) the 11th anniversay--this year May 28 was on a Sunday--and Sandy's post will give me a colorful launching point.

I don't think CBC is bigoted, not even right wing in the Adrian Rogers/Vines sense of the word. Tribal is the word I use in Blessings of Liberty. Many large hearted people in the congregation, a few who voted against me.

Correction. Blessings of Liberty is the title of the documentary of 92 by my friend Brett Morgen. I was a local consultant. Brett went on to be a darling of Sundance with Oscar nominated works including Kid Stays in the Picture and On the Ropes. But my faves remain Crossfire Hurricane about the Rolling Stones where Brett made Red Carpet in London with Mick, Keith and bill Wyman; and Brett's Chicago Ten which I recently recommended to CN President Randall Obrien as he as a Viet Nam Vet has great anticipation about Ken Burns September PBS series on Viet Nam.

I meant to say Exiled Generations

Last time I saw Brett was about 7 years ago in Flat Rock, Alabama, make that Trenton Georgia platformed to go up the mountain to Flat Rock. Flat rock Alabama is authentic, the real deal

But a fairer hearing I doubt it. The end game was a disaster, part miscommunication, part ineptness on the part of John Morgan the pastor and some deacons and part my blame. Still it remains in no way should I been voted out because of a kangaroo court at the library and an aside where I said in the presence of the librarian, her Sister Sheila, Ms Bonnie Payne now deceased and the Shooger Booger, Susan Weaver nor SW Morgan the daughter in law of the Pastor married to the Prince who both work now for Habitat for Humanity in Americus. Susan on occasion plays tennis on President Carter's court with her doubles group, so Sandy can add that to the wide ranging drama my experience where my Momma was baptized extends.

Follow that sentence. I think it works.

What I said my last day in the library not counting the following tuesday when I went back to be told I was to leave immediately because the board had met with the mayor the night before....Maybe it was a Weds cause I was out of town in Bham the night before.....was I was legally banned cause Ms Wilkins had called up her last strike.

Here was Strike Four. At the end of what I thought was a pleasant afternoon where I tease jousted with Bonnie Payne how two young boys should ease tensions from a fight they were chatting about earlier that day at school, on the way out as I interpreted a social cue from Mrs Wilkins in response to some aside she had made about Kay Kay Dupree's wig; I said something to the effect Well We know how that will work out because Your Daddy's name--Gerald Smith--is on the cornerstone of the Collinsville Baptist Church and my Momma's name is not.

Susan thought it was funny. Ms Payne seemed to be smiling as was Wilkins herself in my memory but Sheila went Loopy. Susan, whose mother made perfect on the Math portion of the ACT in 1965 and is a great Methodist woman; Susan said nothing happened.

But somehow between nothing happening and the next Weds I was strike four, Strike Two being an attempt to get a letter in the mail by five oclock in 2001 as a recommendation to Yale Div School to get the preacher's son Matthew scholarship admittance.

Then David Currie comes to town with the associate editor of the Alabama Baptist at my construction and the rest is in Chapter seven or so of Exiled Generations.
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby William Thornton » Wed May 31, 2017 7:17 am

Thompsonesque, Stephen. One of your best.
My stray thoughts on SBC stuff may be found at my blog, SBC Plodder
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby Jim » Wed May 31, 2017 9:12 am

Sandy wrote:
Jim wrote:Just as I surmise that no one in this Forum is particularly interested in my life story, I logically presume that no one is that caught up in Stephen’s. Name and serial number are considered all that’s necessary in a soldier’s life story if he’s captured or even just transferred from one post to another, ergo, not much more than that seems necessary here, though maybe location and communication-information could have some importance. Perhaps things would be different in the extant case if this Forum, upon appeal, could effect an investigation and even a solution if one is needed for what Stephen considers an injustice by his former church. This is improbable. The facts of the matter from Foxy’s viewpoint have been rendered maybe hundreds of times over the years but I doubt that the “other side” would even consider a Forum subpoena, so that would seem to be the end of the matter. Since I am certain that actually all of the U.S. and the rest of the world have never heard of me (or Stephen or you), I would not be interested in drawing attention to (gasp) all those traffic tickets or other injustices I have suffered.


I think Stephen should start to enjoy his being set free from the Collinsville Baptist Church and its narrow minded religious bigotry.


This one sentence totally destroys the rest of your rant. Presumably with absolutely no actual knowledge of the whole matter you have concluded that the Collinsville church is cursed with narrow minded religious bigotry (as your rant noted, the curse of the rabid evangelicals, mainly SBC). How pathetic and hypocritical, a mere attempt to exhibit ad hominem animus by using someone else’s half-baked denunciation of a church by presenting only his side of the issue and your presumably non-existent attempt to get at the whole truth!
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby Sandy » Wed May 31, 2017 10:19 am

Jim wrote:This one sentence totally destroys the rest of your rant. Presumably with absolutely no actual knowledge of the whole matter you have concluded that the Collinsville church is cursed with narrow minded religious bigotry (as your rant noted, the curse of the rabid evangelicals, mainly SBC). How pathetic and hypocritical, a mere attempt to exhibit ad hominem animus by using someone else’s half-baked denunciation of a church by presenting only his side of the issue and your presumably non-existent attempt to get at the whole truth!


Oh? And so what evidence do you have that Collinsville, Alabama is home to the world's only perfect church?

If you read what I posted, I acknowledge that I don't claim to know what the other side thinks about this conversation, or whether it cares. My statement, regarding Stephen's freedom from the "narrow minded religious bigotry" that may, or may not, exist within the Collinsville Baptist Church is an acknowledgement of his commemoration of his being churched, and the perspective he has shared over the years, and to which he has tied this event. And as I said before, which sets the context of my statement, and which you missed completely, I absolutely understand the sentiments that tie people to churches, even when conflict leads to parting of the ways. Through his posts here which frequently mention the episode, I gather that Stephen is still grieving over this, in part because the sentiment that connects him to the church runs through his memories of his mother. I'm just suggesting to him that, after 11 years, perhaps their decision regarding his church membership might be turned to his advantage, looking at it as being set free from the element within the congregation that pushed him out the door. It's not a judgment of them, it's an opportunity for him.

As far as whether the Collinsville Baptist Church is made up of narrow minded religious bigots, well, that's not exactly what I said. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church, and until 7 years ago, had not ever been a member of any other kind, except for one that severed its SBC ties while I was a member there, though its congregational culture and identity didn't change with its shifted affiliation. Narrow minded religious bigotry exists in every church, regardless of the denomination. What I said was, " I'm not comfortable crowding that (conservative theology with which I am comfortable) out, along with the church's mission and purpose, with a right wing extremist position that isn't consistent with that theology, and support for political candidates whose character is the antithesis of it." Then I suggested that Stephen should start enjoying his freedom from what he has characterized as the atmosphere which led to his ouster. He's frequently expressed his views about his own Baptist identity, and the things he admired in the SBC when it was a much different place than it is now. I'm suggesting that he find some fulfillment looking forward to exploring and finding a church like that, rather than dwelling on the perspective of the church where his Momma was baptized, that's not going to change.

I can be a pretty solid, narrow minded religious bigot myself, when I think it is appropriate, and when being reasonable and thoughtful doesn't seem to be having much of an effect. The "Baptist" world that existed for me, and the one that existed for Stephen, resulting in different outcomes, frankly no longer exists for either of us. The day and time for the systematic approach to faith with results that reflected theological perspective has passed, evidenced by waves of denominational controversy, and a steepening, accelerating decline in attendance and membership that has the denominational bureaucracy worried across the board. Stephen's experience could have happened in any one of 50,000 SBC congregations anywhere, resulting from narrow minded religious bigotry.
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby Jim » Wed May 31, 2017 11:24 am

Sandy wrote:
Jim wrote:This one sentence totally destroys the rest of your rant. Presumably with absolutely no actual knowledge of the whole matter you have concluded that the Collinsville church is cursed with narrow minded religious bigotry (as your rant noted, the curse of the rabid evangelicals, mainly SBC). How pathetic and hypocritical, a mere attempt to exhibit ad hominem animus by using someone else’s half-baked denunciation of a church by presenting only his side of the issue and your presumably non-existent attempt to get at the whole truth!



As far as whether the Collinsville Baptist Church is made up of narrow minded religious bigots, well, that's not exactly what I said.


As you can see (maybe), that is precisely what you said.
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby Sandy » Wed May 31, 2017 11:59 am

Jim wrote:
Sandy wrote:
Jim wrote:This one sentence totally destroys the rest of your rant. Presumably with absolutely no actual knowledge of the whole matter you have concluded that the Collinsville church is cursed with narrow minded religious bigotry (as your rant noted, the curse of the rabid evangelicals, mainly SBC). How pathetic and hypocritical, a mere attempt to exhibit ad hominem animus by using someone else’s half-baked denunciation of a church by presenting only his side of the issue and your presumably non-existent attempt to get at the whole truth!



As far as whether the Collinsville Baptist Church is made up of narrow minded religious bigots, well, that's not exactly what I said.


As you can see (maybe), that is precisely what you said.


No, that is not what I said at all. I said that perhaps now that they have made Stephen's membership decision for him, he can "free himself from their narrow minded religious bigotry." The phrase contains adjectives and a noun, not plural, applicable to a specific decision that they made and Stephen's particular perception of its origins. A congregation churched one of its members because it could not tolerate his differences of opinion with theirs, and expressed a dislike for the means he used to express it. I labelled that, based on Stephen's current and past descriptions, as "narrow minded religious bigotry." I did not say that any specific member of the church, or collectively any group of members, were narrow minded religious bigots, though I bet the odds are pretty good that, like any other church, some of them might well be.
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby Jim » Wed May 31, 2017 4:17 pm

S. (Tues., 30 May): I think Stephen should start to enjoy his being set free from the Collinsville Baptist Church and its narrow minded religious bigotry.

Without any question (as not you, of course, but everyone else can see by checking the 30 May post), you described Fox’s former church with the term narrow minded religious bigotry. Trying to use some sort of tortured grammatical garbage to wiggle out of that penultimate bigotry of your own is beneath contempt.
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby Sandy » Wed May 31, 2017 9:27 pm

Jim wrote:S. (Tues., 30 May): I think Stephen should start to enjoy his being set free from the Collinsville Baptist Church and its narrow minded religious bigotry.

Without any question (as not you, of course, but everyone else can see by checking the 30 May post), you described Fox’s former church with the term narrow minded religious bigotry. Trying to use some sort of tortured grammatical garbage to wiggle out of that penultimate bigotry of your own is beneath contempt.


Like I really care what you think. :lol: Penultimate bigotry :lol: I'll have to remember that and use it later on. :lol:
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby David Flick » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:47 am

Jim wrote:S. (Tues., 30 May): I think Stephen should start to enjoy his being set free from the Collinsville Baptist Church and its narrow minded religious bigotry.

Without any question (as not you, of course, but everyone else can see by checking the 30 May post), you described Fox’s former church with the term narrow minded religious bigotry. Trying to use some sort of tortured grammatical garbage to wiggle out of that penultimate bigotry of your own is beneath contempt.

    This is hilarious. :lol: Quite astonishing to observe Sandy attempt to deny saying exactly what he did say. Chalk it up to his tendency to deny the obvious. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:30 am

I didn't deny what I said. In fact, the way I worded the statement is integral to the point, and both you and Jim missed it. Stephen didn't.
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby Jim » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:25 am

Sandy wrote:I didn't deny what I said. In fact, the way I worded the statement is integral to the point, and both you and Jim missed it. Stephen didn't.


Ah…no. I got the point, very well made by you. Shakespeare would have described it as “sound and fury, signifying nothing.” Others might simply conclude it as the penultimate (coming after all others in time or space or degree or being the only one remaining) example of a closed mind.
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:33 pm

Jim wrote:
Sandy wrote:I didn't deny what I said. In fact, the way I worded the statement is integral to the point, and both you and Jim missed it. Stephen didn't.


Ah…no. I got the point, very well made by you. Shakespeare would have described it as “sound and fury, signifying nothing.” Others might simply conclude it as the penultimate (coming after all others in time or space or degree or being the only one remaining) example of a closed mind.


Neither you nor David got the point, obviously.
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William may like Birthday blog

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:44 pm

If he continues to keep up with the unauthorized history of Collinsville.

FTR, had a good sit down 15 minute conversation with Martha Barksdale yesterday, CEO of the Collinsville History Museum. The latest gem of the valley newsletter has a childhood portrait of her then 7 year old son who was chair of the deacons by 2006, May 28. Then I walked down to Graves Hardware and spoke to Thomas, Martha's husband and congratulate him for reading Patrick Phillips Blood at the Root.

I understand what Sandy said about bigots, but like Flick had to read it twice. OTH Flick and Jim read twice but never understood.
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby Jim » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:31 pm

I worked 10 years full-time in SBC churches (decade of the 1960s) and saw up close and personal the problems created by members who for whatever reason attempted frantically and mostly unsuccessfully to impose their positions on the rest of the congregation, especially if they were able to convince a handful of folks to go along. Some 40 or so years later, I wrote a novel about this very subject. Anyone is invited to give it a look:http://www.lulu.com/shop/james-clark/cain/paperback/product-4987791.html.
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Re: Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

Postby David Flick » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:40 pm

Jim wrote:I worked 10 years full-time in SBC churches (decade of the 1960s) and saw up close and personal the problems created by members who for whatever reason attempted frantically and mostly unsuccessfully to impose their positions on the rest of the congregation, especially if they were able to convince a handful of folks to go along. Some 40 or so years later, I wrote a novel about this very subject. Anyone is invited to give it a look:http://www.lulu.com/shop/james-clark/cain/paperback/product-4987791.html.

          Image

I read the book several years ago. It's and excellent, intriguing novel. Good read.
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Schleitheim Confession says CVL ouster of Sfox Null and Void

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:16 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schleitheim_Confession

They had Communion before the vote. Ended the service then voted me out and never gave me an opportunity to discuss matters with Gloria Morgan, Jennifer Wilkins, Sandra Killian and Nessa who got the deacons after me.

Null and Void and Bogus

The Great Daughter in law of the founding pastor of the church, Jeri Alexander who married into the John Bulow Appleton family--Jon Appleton pastor emeritus of FBC Athens Ga is a direct descendant--said the day of the vote most of the people in the church had no idea what the nature of the complaint against me was.

But Jennifer Wilkins sure had a lot of relatives there that day to vote, and City Councilman David Ryan was near the front row.

How Did Mark Morgan who studied at Duke University vote. I doubt his brothers Matthew (Yale) and Prince John the Third (UVA) woulda voted for me and certainly not Thirds brand spanking new bride at that time Susan Weaver whose mother scored perfect on the Math portion of the ACT in 65 woulda voted against me. And I doubt the Math scholar herself but she was lifelong Methodist.

So bogus vote by small minded people who didn't follow the Schleitheim Confession.

Some good people but unqualified to vote because they wouldn't know a real Baptist from a hole in the Ground to paraphrase Randy Newman on Lester Maddox.
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Thursday July 20

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:37 pm

I made a presentation of my friend Sam Hodges book For the Love of Alabama to the Collinsville Historical Association. It's an autographed copy from Sam and one of the celebrants is Ron Casey whose Mother was a contemporary of my Mother though I have no basis to believe they were acquainted.

There is a picture on my facebook wall of the Presentation with Martha Barksdale, Rebecca Clayton, Martha Momma B's granddaughter Brooklyn and myself.
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Historic October 1 in Collinsville

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:02 pm

I visited the local FUMC last Sunday to hear the new woman preacher, the first time Ive heard an ordained woman in the pulpit in Collinsville. Native Becky Kennedy, now a Chaplain at Baylor made a presentation from the pulpit at Collinsville Baptist about 14 years ago, but she was not ordained at the time, and locals including Jennifer Wilkins, Kendy's good friend went to great lengths to say it was not a sermon.

New UMC pastor Carol Gullatt is a first. She did a grand job on the Text of Paul, Let this Mind be in You which was also in Christ Jesus.

I thought they were gonna have lunch after church but when I got there they said that was the week before. Jeff Patton said it was good and there was a lot of it. I asked Munsey Box, bobby welch great friend of the early 60s growing up in these parts if he was gonna buy my lunch cause of a confusing promotion and he said he was not. He comes from a banking family but no mercy for me Sunday. Patton said he wasn't buyin it either. Said Mike Mack Pheerson might buy it but they hadn't seen him in church if three years.

So I went to Jacks and bought my own after communion.
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Good High School football

Postby Stephen Fox » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:47 am

Oct 13 I went ten miles from Collinsville up on Sand Mtn to Crossville to see the Cvl Guntersville matchup. My friends the Raymond Weavers were there--Raymond a HS all american in 65 who married into one of the most influential families in Guntersville, Peggy Weaver, perfect ACT score of 36 on Math her senior year. He long time history teacher in Collinsville and she a legendary Math teacher, both now retired and resettled for the last 12 years or so in their home town of Guntersville.

They were at the game, spoke to them in first quarter and after the game.

Blanton Jones was qb for Crossville which got bumped up to 5a from overwhelming influx of Hispanics in their pocket of Dekalb County. Jones Mother Leah was a sub teach student of mine from her 8th grade on, and her beloved Mother Hortense, a good Baptist, was in the kitchen with several good women feeding 50 or so of my extended family members when Momma died, the funeral March 19, 1988

Blanton's next level best fortunes are likely in Baseball and Ive gone to bat for him at Carson newman and several other schools.

I told him Ive been promoting him as "uncorks like Ted Williams". He replied last Feb when I told him: "Who's Ted Williams"? We're working on that.

Guntersville was clearly in control of the gridiron contest, though Crossville has long time had a stellar music program and had the better band. But Blanton had his Lions on the Move early 3rd Quarter. On the Gville Wildcat 45 Blanton and his Lions went for it on 4th down, Down 28 to Zilch at the Time.

Crossville side had been quiet pretty much the old game. An Old Farmer with his wife smiling like she was on her first date a sparse row behind me, uttered within my hearing: " Here Comes Ever body" as the Wildcat Defense sent the Kitchen Sink and squashed Blanton.

In the crowds I did have a spirited conversation with a Guntersvillian a lawyer Mr. McGlaughlin who is a Bham Sthrn and Harvard Law Grad. He opposed Calvinist Will Ainsworth for state senate but like Blanton, got squished. 350 thou showed up out of nowhere for Ainsworth in a state senate race and now Will is runnin for Lt Governor. I was trying to stop him throwin in behind the daughter of the Bear's late career QB Scott Hunter, but she dropped out
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Note for Casey Mattox and ADF

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:42 am

Alliance Defending Freedom of which the Collinsville native is now on staff. On Facebook Oct 27 a few mins ago...


Has Casey Mattox of Collinsville, Alabama on your staff googled and read closely the religion dispatches piece Religious Right out of the Closet"; and how would he advise his hometown Collinsville Baptist church to vote in the Bama December 14 election between Roy Moore and Doug Jones. Word on the street is Nick Saban and his wife and the majority of his congregation St. Francis Catholic Church in Tuscaloosa is voting againts the leadership of the Bammer Southern Baptist Convention to wit Saban is voting for Doug Jones for the majority of his football team, people of color. Saban spoke out against Trump calling him a Deceiver. If Trump is a Deceiver then what pray tell is Steven Bannon. Read Saban in Saturdays down South on NFL and patriotism. Where is Casey Mattox. Is he struck mute like the 8 ministers to whom ML king Sent the letter from the Bham Jail? What Did casey mattox learn at the UVA.
Does he have any more discernment than he did when he left Collinsville, or still leaning toward the Know Nothings Lincoln tried to navigate 160 years ago?
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