CBF leader says it's time to revisit ban on hiring gays

[Ed Pettibone]

[Jerry_B]

[Gene Scarborough]

Jerry---

Just hiring or ministering to a gay person does not mean you affirm his position anymore than letting a sinful person attend your church affirms their sin!

You certainly will never give them a chance to change if you won't let them through the door nor hire them.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

I simply think there are certain people who are in a male body with female hormones flowing in predominence and vice versus. Some people are born more feminine than others in a male body and more macho in a female body.

Instead of an either/or, I think we have a continuum where the sexes meet and sometimes cross. This strange mix is an act of God in creation as testosterone and estrogen flow in both bodies of men and women.
That's the hormonal factor.

There is also a social factor. In this day of 50% divorce, too many children are raised by a mother with the father absent. This is particularly difficult since boys do not see a good male role model. The Gay men I know have all been reared by a seriously domineering mother---and turned out to be more like her.

Studies are being conducted as we speak. Past studies reflect the the things I have cited. Some of this is beyond the control of church or person. It "just happens" and we should be more sensitive than to stone them as the Bible demands in the OT = or ostricize them with emotional stones of derision.

In no way do I condone nor encourage homosexuality. In every way I am trying to be compassionate and understanding to the point I don't believe we need to deny same-sex partners a place in society deserving health care and other benefits of a heterosexual couple. I daily observe men being submissive to a butchy wife. Yet we don't choose to see it as "strange." It's just overly simplistic to take the view of ostricism of same sex partners who are being decent citizens and enjoying the peace and joy of their authentic self---whatever that might be.

[Ed Pettibone]

Gene Scarborough:

]Ed---

1. I simply think there are certain people who are in a male body with female hormones flowing in predominence and vice versus. Some people are born more feminine than others in a male body and more macho in a female body.

1. Ed: And what evidence do you have to support your theory? (what you think) And Gene where you say Some people are born more feminine than others in a male body and more macho in a female body. Why do you use famine for female traits and Macho for male traits, since Macho is more negative. See this definition (ma·cho
 [mah-choh] adjective; a. having or characterized by qualities considered manly, especially when manifested in an assertive, self-conscious, or dominating way.
b. having a strong or exaggerated sense of power or the right to dominate.

2. Gene: Instead of an either/or, I think we have a continuum where the sexes meet and sometimes cross. This strange mix is an act of God in creation as testosterone and estrogen flow in both bodies of men and women.
That's the hormonal factor.

2.Ed: Again where is the evidence? This theory has been around for years with no conclusive studies to support the idea that even wide differences in hormonal levels produce a significant correlation of sexual desire for the same sex partners. And I do not buy the idea that "This strange mix is an act of God in creation... the Bible explicitly says" male and female created he them". Homosexuality I believe is one of the many results of the fall.

3.Gene: There is also a social factor. In this day of 50% divorce, too many children are raised by a mother with the father absent. This is particularly difficult since boys do not see a good male role model. The Gay men I know have all been reared by a seriously domineering mother---and turned out to be more like her.

3. Actually that 50 % rate is misleading, only 41% of first marriages end in divorce and a higher percentage of childless couples divorce, which tends to negate your theory. See http://www.divorcerate.org/ And Gene exactly how many gay men have you known and how many of their mothers have you known? But then how do you account for gay females. And BTW some children who have had passive mothers grow up to be homosexuals and some heterosexual. And both passive and domineering women have both Gay and Straight children Also many homosexuals have brothers and sisters who who have grownup as heterosexual. And Gene Many children w/o fathers in the home have better male role models than some with an "intact family". Keep in mind singles ministry is my preferred ministry area.


4. Studies are being conducted as we speak. Past studies reflect the the things I have cited. Some of this is beyond the control of church or person. It "just happens" and we should be more sensitive than to stone them as the Bible demands in the OT = or ostricize them with emotional stones of derision.

4.. No Gene it does not just happen ! If social scientist believed that, they would not be conducting the very studies you refer to. And there are studies that counter the "things" you cite. And who here has suggested that we stone anyone. I advocate assisting them to re-orientate their chosen sexual preference. see my reply to #3.

5. In no way do I condone nor encourage homosexuality. In every way I am trying to be compassionate and understanding to the point I don't believe we need to deny same-sex partners a place in society deserving health care and other benefits of a heterosexual couple. I daily observe men being submissive to a butchy wife. Yet we don't choose to see it as "strange." It's just overly simplistic to take the view of ostricism of same sex partners who are being decent citizens and enjoying the peace and joy of their authentic self---whatever that might be.

5. Ed: And Gene you don't consider the term "butchy wife" a form of derision? And why would you consider the combination strange. No one I have read suggest we deny homosexuals heath care. It is the terms of heath care that are in question. Since when has God promised peace and joy to every one living on their own terms.
And Gene, what is the"view of ostracism" that you call overly simplistic? And are you under some allusion that all homosexuals are "being decent citizens". And no I am not denying that some are. But some are quit crude and obnoxious just as are some heterosexuals.

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

Shall we just say, "You have your view and I have mine."

Mine is based on materials and personal experiences. You refuse to acknowledge nor to admit such exists and I won't bother taking my time to refute you. Your mind is obviously made up to stone gays as the OT folks did. Of us all, I suggest you attend the conference at Decatur First Baptist sponsored by CBF and take a look at the materials reasoned people will share---and discuss it there with them in person. I might just go myself.

Enjoy their bloody death as did the Germans who exterminated them along with Jews and Gypsies, and mentally ill.

[William Thornton]

Hmmm, Gene sez that Ed has his view and he has his own view but those who have Ed's view are like Jew killing, gypsy killing, homosexual killing Nazis.

Gene, any argumentation that ends like you ended this one classifies you as unworthy of a serious discussion. I am sorry to see it.

[Gene Scarborough]

William---

Are you saying that gay people have not been hunted and killed over something they may not be able to control?

I am not calling anybody anything---just citing the fact that evidence is just beginning to surface that sexuality is a continuum rather than an either/or as depicted in the Bible. The biblical writers were confident we lived on a flat earth with corners and the sea beneath and sky above and that the sun rotated around it.

ALL THIS was proven wrong with men being killed and threatened for saying otherwise.

I'm just saying, The case is out / gays are out / we need to do a better approach with understanding if we are to be able to minister to them. Some are content with stating publically what they are and how they feel about it.

Why not attend the conference and take a look at the discussion which I am sure will be highly educational. Then we might all discuss this with a cooler and less threatened head on our shoulders.

Sorry if you are offended, but serious matters--not in the norm--draw a serious rebuke from me.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

You take my humor too seriously and important issues not serious enough to drive to lovely Atlanta from frigid NY. Their lovely dogwoods and azelias should be in full bloom by then and your spirits would be lifted.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

You never seem to "get it," Ed!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

Ed I'm confused about something to do with the CBF policy and maybe you know the answer.

If someone were to apply for a job with the CBF who says that they are gay but also declared that they were not in any kind of sexual relationship with another person of the same sex would they be disqualified from being able to work for the CBF. And, if so why?

[Haruo]

Or what about a person who said they were gay but were in a heterosexual marriage? Or what about a person who said they were gay but believed that same-sex intercourse was incommensurate with Biblical standards (yet was silent about his or her current relationship status)? (Since my impression was that the question posed had to do with beliefs about gay sex, not practices...)

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

Why do you have such a strong opinion, yet no specifics on this. It's always the resonse to a direct question = "You tell me," rather than here is what it is!"

I really think you need to go to the conference and talk with people having sexual identity issues. I pray that you will.

I gather from your citing of churches leaving there, it is a part of your local issues with church cooperation.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Haruo]