Latest News on CBF Listening Sessions

[Gene Scarborough]

[Dave Roberts]

I think the reports are good. Part of the struggle of CBF is finding ways to be creative in the 21st century without trying to replicate the 20th. The ways to build cooperation are going to require new thinking. Decentralization will be what is likely to work, and I see the SBC trying to move in the opposite direction as NAMB tries to cut ties of partnership with state bodies to do its own church planting initiative. I think we are living in what may prove a pivotal century in Baptist life.

[Gene Scarborough]

I wonder if anyone will chime in saying the SBC is still better?

They are in a major budget crisis to the point they backed away from the name change with the cost involved.

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

I'm glad you brought up the homosexual issue alongside the other inclusive outlooks of CBF.

I totally agree with the divisive nature of it, but would hope the attitude of cooperation over coersion might rule. That was the foundation of SBC growth and cooperation in the past. When that went, the growth stopped and fighting took over. Escrowed funds for hard times carried it through to now, but the reality of lesser cooperation and giving to a forced conformity along with the "Great Recession" is making them show their weakness financially.

In NC, there is now a Financial Policy which precludes any church ministering to homosexuals from having their gifts accepted. The Executive Committee passes judgement on what "ministering to homosexuals" means. Now they are after churches calling a female as pastor.

It seems the opportunities for fussing and fighting are endless. When we were a less informed-by-the-media country we sort of used local news as the source for issues. Now it quickly gets national attention and some "law" to rule us into a pretended conformity. If America is a truely free society, then we have to allow for individual respect even if people do not do as we want all the time. We certainly still need to respect privacy and what a household does in their own home.

[Tim Bonney]

Ed I have to agree with you that not having a clear policy on homosexuality is divisive. However, having a clear policy doesn't necessarily bring unity either. The UMC has a clear policy which, by my count at Annual Conference in Iowa, about half the voting members of Conference disagree with. So what do you do with a clear policy that barely the majority agrees with? In the UMC's case you follow the policy in the Discipline until such a time as the majority view of the delegates of the General Conference changes and they vote in a different policy.

But I don't know what good a policy (clear or not) does for the CBF since it is unenforceable outside of the CBF office anyway.

[Gene Scarborough]

We might note the way the Roman Catholic Church does their business. Some years back in the rise of the Charismatic Movement so offensive to the RCC way of formality and control, they allowed for the "Catholic Charismatic Movement" as long as they sent money to Rome.

They value money over conformity and have always started a new branch as long as they don't openly criticize the Pope and send their gold!

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Why can we not have a discussion about CBF without comparing ourselves to that Baptist group based in Nashville, the UMC, Catholics or any other purportedly christian organization with which we have no formal ties.

BTW, I am starting a new thread with this same question.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

Gene started this thread but apparently Ed has declared himself "ruler of discussion flow" here so I'll discuss the Cooperative Baptist purported Fellowship without any reference to any other purported Christians for just a minute.

The CBF is a fellowship and not a denomination. The CBF is made up of churches and individuals that contribute to it. The CBF has and claims no authority for itself to over doctrine for its members nor does it have a creed or confession of faith of its own. The CBF does not seek to require its members to subscribe to a statement of faith yet, the CBF national body has an official position on homosexuality. Anyone else see a flaw in this? (Please don't reference any other purported Christian that is not part of the purported CBF and please don't requote my post in your response since I'm not a Baptist but a Methodist who is purported to be a Christian, other wise you'll tick off Ed)

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Tim please wait a bit and see my reply in the other thread. This is not about you myself or any individual.

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Dave Roberts]

While the CBF structure is somewhat loose by definition, I hope there will be a move to find the next leader with more of the personality of Cecil Sherman than Dan Vestal. I consider Dan a friend and an excellent administrator, but I am convinced that CBF needs a visionary leader to implement some of the strategies. Indeed, it may require someone who stands in the gaps and makes noise to bring CBF to its next level. We don't need a authoritarian micromanager, but we need a visionary who can draw others into a compelling vision for the future.

[Gene Scarborough]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Tim---

That's why you enjoy Methodism: It is clearcut and has a policy on everything. Ministers can just say, "I must consult with the DS on that one." Then the DS can consult to the higher level up the line. I see nothing wrong with that. It gives a certain comfort and discipline and avoids all the craziness of Baptists!

The beauty of Baptists, for me, has been Autonomy.

That was one of the things Vestal was citing. When it worked the SBC became the largest Protestant Demonimation in the world. Second only to Roman Catholics in size for all of christiandom.

Here is a strange conundrum: How can you get along when you don't have control of polity and a chain of command?

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

In other words: Maybe CBF does not need a "policy" on everything and leave it to the local church to minister?

I like that!!!

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

[KeithE]