Molly Marshall on the Virgin Mary

[Stephen Fox]

A woman of "fierce faith"

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/like-mary-do ... -cms-19015

[Dave Roberts]

A very good article without hitting any of the extremes.

[Gene Scarborough]

What stands out to me:

Her role in this love story of cosmic proportions is indispensable, and her consent matters. St. Augustine was fond of saying that God would do nothing "without our consent."

God is not content to remain in heaven, but desires to make life among us. Truly, heaven cannot contain God's overflowing love; it spills into the world.

God cannot wait for mortals to get it right (we never will), so God comes among us in the frailest form of human life, a male infant, and Mary is God's first earthly home.

She has found favor with God. Why Mary? She is a person of fierce faith; she believed the promises of God to her downtrodden people.

Thus she looked for the redemption of Israel through the coming Messiah. She well knew that only God could lift the heel of Rome from the neck of her people; she knew that only God could call the arrogantly religious to true faith.

So why is it, we can't seem to honor women as pastors or deacons---and God help the one that speaks up at Church Conference!

[Stephen Fox]

The Magdalene. This came across my radar this morning coincidental to Mollys devotional

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archi ... magdalene/

[Timothy Bonney]

So why is it, we can't seem to honor women as pastors or deacons---and God help the one that speaks up at Church Conference!

Gene, I've tried to understand why some Christian groups don't allow women clergy and leadership but it honestly mystifies me. In my current church and the three ABC churches I pastored women have been some of the best leaders. Several of my favorite preachers are women who bring a real gift of preaching and teaching to the pulpit. In two of the churches that I've served as Senior Pastor I had women on the pastoral staff and they were great to work with and did a wonderful job.

I know some here would suggest that the Bible doesn't support women's leadership. But we've all had that argument before and it comes down to which parts of the culture of the time of the writing of the Bible we accept now and which we don't and for what reasons. The Bible doesn't oppose slavery but we now do. The Bible says women shouldn't cut their hair and should wear veils but our women don't. The Bible says we shouldn't eat meat with blood in it or certain kinds of sea food but I'm sure many of us eat medium rare steak and shrimp. (I now I do!)

So I'm mystified as to why some churches choose to keep more than half of their members from using their God given talents to glorify God just because middle eastern Christians nearly 2,000 didn't buck their own culture to do so. In particular I'm mystified when there are a number of passages that suggest that even the Apostle Paul was bucking the trend and allowing women to preach and have leadership roles they were never allowed to have in their previous faith life.

Why is that cultural restriction kept by many when so many others are not?

[Gene Scarborough]

Stupid men wanting to rule women and make them do as they say and not as they do is a sufficient explaination for me.

Any man who does not recognize how many women do the real work in a given church should certainly have his turn at being the recipient of the committee assignment!

My exparience with men has been sitting on a "board" and making decisions (for the most part) so someone else has to do the work---be it preacher / women / lesser members who are new and want to make a place for themselves. Something about Jesus taking a towel and washing feet comes to mind for me in this area!!!

[Timothy Bonney]

That is what is odd Gene. I don't think it is stupid men. I even know some women who have opposed women in ministry. I think we are more bound to our culture at times than we are bound to the Bible.

[Gene Scarborough]

True, Tim.

Our local UMC just had a 2-year assignment of an outstanding lady minister. Despite all she did to renew the fellowship and start some new things, some of them carried on over having a "woman preacher."

The "we have always done it this way" syndrome rules to this day!!!

[Ed Pettibone]

Gene your statement that "The 'we have always done it this way' syndrome rules to this day!!!" Is much to broad. While the "we have always done it this way" syndrome is prevalent in many places it does not rule. in all places. Thanks be to God that Central Seminary with Molly Marshal at the helm has made a number of changes but this piece is evidence that change does not require throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Gene Scarborough]

Perhaps I should have said: "Ego preservation requires sticking with what you think you know."

One of the best words often cited in theology and biblical classes at SEBTS was "presupposition."

All of us have them. Many of them have no real logic. Times change and we are unwise to put all our trust in the past and run scared of the present and future.

I think it was well-said in the past by a wise observer: "Conservatives are my contemporary ancestors!"

[KeithE]

That is what is odd Gene. I don't think it is stupid men. I even know some women who have opposed women in ministry. I think we are more bound to our culture at times than we are bound to the Bible.

Amen

[Gene Scarborough]

Totally agreed, Keith!

[Dave Roberts]

One of my convictions is that many of us pay lip service to equality between men and women in churches, but we have given very few women the chance to fill the pulpits of our churches, preach for special events, and be the preachers for special emphases. It is easy to say we support women in ministry, but it takes effort to have women deliberately come and practice their preaching skills on our congregations. Also, how many women have we recommended to search committees in our Baptist family? Women deserve more visible support, not just proclaimed support.

[Gene Scarborough]

AGREED!!!!