Vestal Announces His Retirement

[Bruce Gourley]

Daniel Vestal has announced his retirement as CBF Executive Coordinator.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Dave Roberts]

I consider Dan Vestal as deserving of a great job doing the impossible. No one could follow Cecil Sherman. Daniel has kept CBF folks moving forward. My prayers go to the ones to be named for the search committee.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

I guess we're moving forward in some sense. The financial situation isn't great to say the least. We certainly haven't moved forward on funding new field personnel or even sustaining current field personnel.

I do agree with Ed. The timing makes sense; the next CBF exec needs to be in place when these new directions come, so he or she can have some sense of "ownership" of the vision.

[Stephen Fox]

And goes far outside the bounds of his work with CBF though that will be central.

He has some grand stories to tell, behind the scenes conversations with Bill Moyers along the way beginning with his pilgrimage toward broader Baptist Spirituality and growth with his appearance on Moyers 86 documentary.

His episode down the street from President George W. Bush 43 salvation experience in Midland in early 80's will be great chapter, I hope broadened to include stories from Bush's great friend in Midland, Jim Lacy, an early treasurer of Baptist Laity Movement.

Not to mention Vestal's origins from a family of evangelists telling the Old Old Story.

Vestal is a grand fellow, did his best to bridge the chasm between remnants from the Baptist takeover on Both Sides of the Mississippi.

I honor his service to the Baptist world post 1979

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

CBF has been able to hold together as a fellowship within the convention, with a significant majority of its contributing churches remaining in the SBC and continuing to contribute to the CP, largely because Sherman and Vestal have put in a lot of personal time, had a vested interest in the organization itself, and wielded the fire hose in the face of sharp declines in both the number of contributing churches, and in financial support. Among the organizations founders and inner circle, is that kind of personal willpower and committment still available? Because if it isn't, I wouldn't take bets on CBF being around by the time I turn 60 in 2017.

[Dave Roberts]

I see CBF as being around a good while, but the culture is changing. I was the last member of the CBF of VA Coordinating Council who came from the group who were there for CBF's beginnings. There is a new generation arising, and they approach missions differently from my generation. And, I believe that's a good thing. CBF will move, with Dan's retirement, out of the first generation of CBF and into a new generation with new ideas. They could care less about the SBC and what went on there. They are certainly not interested in going back and see their task as one to find ways to be missional in the 21st century. My generation was wrong at first to try to create too much of the old SBC, but that is no more. CBF will arrive in the future with a much more flexible, open, and responsive structure to a changing world. I predict that the next CBF Coordinator will be under 50 and will come with a different set of ideas and skills.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

Sherman and Vestal both had contacts with individuals who had deep pockets, and could write checks to cover budget shortfalls. Many of those people are passing off the scene.

It may be different in the Southeast, in NC, GA, VA, with regard to churches that contribute to CBF and remain aligned with the SBC, but it is different in Texas. But that's where a lot of the "deep pocket" money comes from. At its peak, there were probably close to 250 churches in Texas that financially supported CBF. When I left, the people I knew in their state network were talking about less than 150, and in terms of large contributions, the bulk of CBF support coming from Texas is probably coming from not much more than a dozen churches. I know of five, out of eleven total, in the Union association, who quit making CBF contributions upon the departure of their pastor.

I don't see CBF as necessarily being all that partial to younger leadership, either. There is a prevailing sense of Baptist elitism which elevates some of the inner circle individuals to prominence as "veterans" of the Baptist battles. Most of these people are getting on up there, since they weren't spring chickens back in '79 and through the 80's when the battles were happening, and many of them had been part of the pre-1979 entrenched SBC bureaucracy. The younger people tend to be gravitating toward non-denominational expressions of Christian faith, not toward former denominational leadership steeped in elitist paternalism.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Dave,

When you say you hope the next Coordinator will be someone under 50, do you have a particular name in mind? I know of one name that was already mentioned publicly at EthicsDaily.com some months back.

I could care less about the age of the next Coordinator. A 50-something vs. a 40-something doesn't matter to me.

Never heard the East Coast Elitism characterization before - but I do believe, however, that glowing optimism about the future of the CBF isn't always helpful. Sandy is nuts to think that the CBF won't be around in 2017. No organization with a 16 million budget is going to just disappear practically overnight.

Still though, the financial trajectory of the CBF is very very bad. I think we should be optimistic that the Task Force can put forth solid recommendations and articulate a vision that will help the CBF confront these immense challenges.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Dahl]

I did a survey interview with Guidestone recently. One of the questions they asked me was, "Do I feel strongly connected to the SBC." My answer was, "Not at all."

They then asked me if I would be willing to accept a position at a non-SBC church in the future. My response was, "I would be willing to go wherever it was that God calls me, SBC or not."

Their unsolicited response to my statements regarding my SBC affiliation was, "You know, we are hearing that from a lot of young ministers."

I wonder how many pastors under 50 have a great desire to stay in their denomination, or show little qualm about going elsewhere?

Tim

[Sandy]

A $16 million budget isn't a guarantee that an organization will be around in seven or eight years. I could name a dozen churches in Houston, Texas that have more than a $16 million budget.

Other than continued opposition, or resistance, to the leadership that is in place in the Southern Baptist Convention, what is it that would attract churches to affiliate with CBF. And what is there to keep them affiliated and in support, beyond that? It seems that the most crucial tie between a church and its relationship with CBF is its pastor, and the most frequent reason a church stops contributing is that the pastor changes and someone becomes pastor who isn't interested in continuing the relationship. Both Sherman and Vestal were key in keeping a lot of those relationships going. There are some "core" CBF supporting churches, who would not consider calling a pastor who wasn't familiar with, or committed to, CBF. But there are a lot of others whose support for CBF is simply part of something they do to keep the peace in the church. I've seen a lot of churches in Texas drop off the CBF list because of a pastoral change.

It looks like most of those unhappy with the directional change of the SBC have probably already left. That cow is probably not going to produce much more milk. I would say that CBF's future depends on getting a leader who can put enough of a vision on the table to convince the majority of the fence sitting, dual affiliated congregations to drop their SBC ties, and who can get them to invest resources in planting new churches that have never known SBC affiliation. Continuing to hang the existence of the organization on the pocketbooks of small groups of elderly church members in a few dually affiliated SBC churches has resulted in severe contribution losses.

[Haruo]

[William Thornton]

[Dave Roberts]

Some quick thoughts on this.

First, I see CBF as changing into the future. When I came to CBF in 1991, it was a refuge for the folks who could no longer, in good conscience, accompany the SBC into the future of rigid creedalism that had been chosen. Now, CBF is redefining itself as a missions organization with a structure focused less on full, direct support for field personnel and more on encouraging creative partnerships that further that mission. It is also looking into filling gaps in the mission outreach of existing organizations rather than setting up competing mission efforts.

Second, ministers have a great influence on where churches go. Some churches will not call a pastor or other staff unless they are fully committed to CBF (or SBC) while others seems to shift back and forth in the spectrum. Indeed, it usually only takes one rigid Calvinist from SBTS or SEBTS to shift some churches in our area toward CBF. At the same time, some CBF supporting churches have gone with a pastor back to the SBC.

Third, I do see some possible leaders for CBF from state positions who might do well in guiding CBF national in the future. These are from the younger generation. At this point, it would be premature to name people, but they are out there. I know CBF best in VA and NC, having pastored in both states. NC CBF is one of the stronger state organizations, and it's growing. CBF of VA also is building new dreams and partnerships and picking up new ministries, though on a smaller scale than NC because the BGAV does not endorse CBF but is also not hostile to its churches.

Fourth, the reality is that younger ministers, and many of us who are older, are not rigidly committed to one denomination. My son worked during his seminary days at a Disciples of Christ church with a pastor who was a former Baptist. There are also churches that shift in their emphasis. A nearby SBC church used a retired Methodist minister for a recent interim.

Fifth, I am certain that almost all denominations (with perhaps the exception of some pentecostal groups) are in some sort of decline. The future of all denominations will be interesting to follow. I suspect that the future shape of things may be quite different from what any of us expect. The current of change is too vast to predict for me.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Dave Roberts]

I know Rob and Larry, and either would be an excellent choice.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[David Flick]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: I do not know Ogburn but I am wondering where he gets the idea that the CBF Coordinators Position was ever a lifetime appointment. Cecil held the position only 4 years. He began serving on April 1, 1992, and served until his retirement in 1996. He lived another 14years. And Vestal has served as coordinator 15 years, I believe he was 52 when hired. And I anticipate he will at least as long as I have, and I am nearing 78. (2 months 5days to go )

And while the ABC-USA General Secretary is elected for 4 years at a time Roy Medley is now in his third term.

And Aaron I know some folk in their 60s who could give us another good 5 to 12 years. And then there is a fellow who has led two of the CBF's State organizations for a total of 17 years and he is only 51.

[William Thornton]

I always liked Dan Vestal (liked the earlier Vestal better than the later one, though).

I hear you guys praising state CBF organizations. The national CBF has struggled for years and hasn't funded any new missioners for quite some time.

Exactly what do you CBFers expect from the national CBF?

[Big Daddy Weaver]