Budget Crisis at CBF

[Gene Scarborough]

The above article appears in ABP News last week. It isn't pretty and the discussion is somewhat heated there. I have just added comment.

The article cites the Budget Committee and Dan Vestal saying, "If things don't improve there will have to be cuts in mission field staff." Already, there have been serious cuts in Headquarters Staff to try and bring expenditures in line with actual income. The CBF does not have the SBC luxery of great financial reserves to cover current shortfalls.

Any who would try and say, "The sky is falling on CBF" would be badly wrong. It is falling in state and country governments and they have forced cut-backs. Four years ago it fell on me and other small businesses with what is now termed "The Great Recession."

Folks, any business suffering under 70% off earnings is knowing a Depression rather than a Recession. I do not know of any businesses not suffering a 30-70% reduction in earnings---except those bailed out with tax money. Were Unemployment Benefits not extended over the last 4 years, every citizen would be clearly aware of fiscal realities in this country.

In my opinion, it is a miracle of committed giving that CBF is not far worse off. Maybe, by next year someone will simply tell the truth: We are suffering from a world-wide Depression and Oil Companies are getting rich!

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed--

In usual fashion you are nit-picking my "heated discussion" statement. What I am referring to is not the CBF discussion, but the discussion in the blog comments---if you read the article. There are some there trying to attribute the problems to the homosexual issue. It is a total distraction from the economy's place in all this.

Now, if you believe the price of oil is "just that," you have been taken for a fool by the Oil Industry. What is driving prices up is the price being paid by investors in oil futures. Their assumption is that a recovering world-wide economy means people will pay higher prices. This boils down to the "rich getting richer" off us poor souls trying to just get to work.

This is a totally greedy outlook and does nothing but hurt consumers and slow the recovery. No one element in the economy affects the financial struggles of people more than the price or Petrolium. It has to do with things such as synthetics / asphault / groceries / electricity / everything we do these days.

I would like to see the oil price gougers burn in a Hell fired with diesel = when it lights off it burns hotter than gasoline!!!!

[Dave Roberts]

What I am hearing in churches is that for most congregations, belt tightening is happening at the local level and filtering down to all denominational structures. I was speaking with a United Methodist recently who was telling me he did not see how their congregation could pay denominational apportionments. When it comes to choosing whether to keep the utility bills paid and salaries current or pay mission expenditures, the local issues always win out. Also, the ticking time bomb in church life is that the builder generation is rapidly dying, and it takes three of us baby boomers to replace one of those from the preceding generation who have been much more committed to being stewards in financial matters to the church.

[Haruo]

[Gene Scarborough]

I have heard the exact same comments from UMC churches in eastern NC. Tightening budgets and money make us all choose between those ACC Season Tickets and paying the light bill. Anyone who knows much about the ACC basketball obsession knows EXACTLY what I mean!

I was amazed the Super Bowl was more than half full. The truth came out that teams participating have to purchase and re-sell a certain large number of tickets each. It has become "forced profit" in the name of entertainment.

Has anyone ever thought about how NASCAR / professional football / college basketball / mega church resembles the Colliseum at Rome. They purposely went about entertaining citizens to distract them from the social collapse and political shenanigans going on in the Senate of Rome. They had gone from their "growth and conquest" phase into their "maintain and entertain" phase.

At 200 years, America is doing a repeat of the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. The religion of Rome was about smoke and incense with a bought military. The worst thing which happened to Rome and the Christian Church was the conversion of Constantine and his edict that now "all of Rome was Christian." It had nothing to do with personal commitment and faith. He used religion and games as an "opiate of the people."

Take a close look at Baptist religious doings these days. If it is only about money and balanced budgets, then it is for naught. If it is about spreading the Gospel / helping one another / sharing our worldly goods with those less fortunate, it will survive. Welfare is based on this concept, but has only produced a mass of government-check-dependent / out-of-wedlock child production with little desire to rise above where people now are = MAINTAIN & ENTERTAIN!!!

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

[Tim Dahl]

I'm under the impression that giving has been going down for some time. I think William has stats on how long the CP has been going down. Is there anyway we can see how the CBF giving has graphed out? Has it been going up, and then took a stark dive over the past couple of years? Where can we get the giving stats from other denominations. I guess Tim Bonney would be the one to ask about the Methodists. Have they had a steady increase in giving before the recession hit?

Tim

[Big Daddy Weaver]

The economy certainly has an important place in all this. No doubt about that.

But the SBC's fiscal woes are relatively insignificant compared to the CBF's.

And I don't think it is helpful to compare CBF's issues to the Methodists or any other Mainline Protestant denomination - denominations that have seen a decrease in membership/giving, etc.

The CBF's budget has been forced to shrink for a number of years now. Pretty sure CBF was facing money issues before the "Great Recession."

The fact is that the CBF just cut 25% of its staff. I don't know of a mainline denomination that had to make that large of a cut in just one year. 25% is deep. And those deep cuts haven't solved anything. I appreciate Daniel Vestal's recent comments. He was clearly being open and honest and not trying to minimize the serious financial situation of CBF.

[Tim Dahl]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

I think each of the observations above is a "good guess" at what are the problems. They are all joining together to make for a crisis. The best thing is that no one is hiding stuff as other denominations---especially the SBC---are.

The SBC has a long history of gifts and, since the 1950's, has put away large sums of money to tide them over this hard time. They are so hidden in their financial activities that few will ever find cold hard facts on finance. The truth is that there are disproportionate amounts going to administration over actual ministry. Many money-sucking ministries to the down-and-out have been quietly phased out. In it's place has been put the "church planting" concept which costs little or nothing except a small stipend which goes away in 3-5 years.

The average Baptist is so programed to "buying their mission work" that they have no clue of the depth and harshness of SBC changes. They just keep blindly giving to the noises of Jerry Fallwell-like leaders because they sound so sincere and traditional.

Meanwhile, CBF by Vestal's observations, has had a few with money giving large support while the average participating church still does not have the courage to make CBF a regular part of the over-all church budget. Many gifts to CBF are designated instead of being budgeted from total church funds. It doesn't take many economic rapids to disturb this level of support.

Put all this in the general context of deominational mistrust and a current tendency to do projects over general giving, and you have a more clear picture of several major obstacles affecting their fragile funds. So will CBF knuckle down and endure? In the Depression the SBC almost went under, but endured. I hope the importance of the ministry and it's freedom which is encouraged will ultimately win out.

[Ed Pettibone]

ED: After the first quick read I would say, Gene we agree this one.

[Jim]

The shortfall is due in part to the poor economy and the fact that very few churches are all-or-nothing for CBF. The CBF is made up of former SBC folks in former SBC churches that nevertheless still include, if not a majority, at least a segment of SBC loyalists large enough to cause an inner split if an official split from the SBC is approved. This will not happen.

There’s also a systemic problem, namely, the aura, whether deserved or not, that the CBF will stray off the reservation concerning becoming too liberal. The Kentucky Baptist Fellowship (my outfit) is now a full-fledged member of the Kentucky Council of Churches, a quintessentially liberal outfit with positions, its own or encompassing, that are to conservatives like me too wacky to abide. This union may be politically correct but it is spiritually bankrupt. What few dollars I have to give can be better spent. I support my church but my mission offering went to Lottie Moon. I may soon just bolt, but that will be no great loss other than my own.

[William Thornton]

[Ed Pettibone]

Speaking of CBF William Thornton writes "My guess is that if the next round of cuts is in their core ministry, the roughly 50% of the budget that does to global missions, then churches will start asking if this thing is really going to work long term." And William that will depend a lot on how we define "this thing". One of the original reasons for developing partner relationships was to allow for flexibility to ajust the definition on the fly.

I will admit that when we where still in SBC churches, either SBC/CBF or CBF/SBC we gave more to CBF than do since Trudy became an ABC-USA pastor. Before joining an ABC church we split our tithe between the local churches where we attended and if they allowed designate the remainder to CBF. If the did not allow designated giving we contributed to their local expenses and sent the remainder to CBF directly as well as contributing to our region. From the time we joined an ABC church we have given the tithe to the churches where we have held membership and the bulk of any offerings have gone to CBF through the region and directly to CBF primarily in the form of offerings at the General assemblies. From discussions that I have had with several people in CBF only or CBF/SBC churches the bulk of their regular giving goes their local church and state CBF, their offering go to the Offerings at the assemblies. As Leonard says "Being Baptist is messy". I find being more than one type of baptist is even more messy . But so far it is fun. For example we feel a bit guilty going to Tampa for CBF rather than to Puerto Rico for the ABC-USA biennial. Initially we had hoped to get to most of each meeting, but with the increase in air fare and the rise in gas prices, to do both seems to be out of the question. So we are only going to the CBF assembly It will give us a chance to visit with the two boys and Trudy's brother who is in extremely poor health, all three are in Florida.

[Gene Scarborough]

[Dave Roberts]

Gene, you need to go to the BTSR website and read President Ron Crawford's blog on the subject. There is more to the story than was told in this version. It seems that BTSR may have more dance partners, and perhaps part of the interest here is as much from Chowan as from BTSR. White, Chowan's president, has always wanted to start a divinity school there to replicate his achievements at Gardner-Webb. BTSR has short-term problems but long-term assets in wills, bequests, and trusts. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. BTSR is the only stand-alone school, I believe, among moderate Baptist institutions which puts it in a far different place from most of the others.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Gene Scarborough]

Dave--

Thanks for the guidance to the BTSR website and Crawford's remarks. The more we can see exact information, the better we are enabled to form an opinion, should one be appropriate.

Big Daddy Weaver: Norman Jameson is a personal friend and respected professional for me. We met over lunch at my request and I expected to find a participant in the CR movement since it was them who selected him as Biblical Recorder Editor. Instead, I found a man who pedals his own bicycle--figurtively, as well as real since he love bicycling. Norman has always seen to the core in my opinion AND been fair to all sides, including his own mind and spirit.

I can also see Crawford's defensiveness since he is at the helm of BTSR. Personally, I view their moves as wise. I also don't see little Chowan being the greatest asset to BTSR when U of Richmond / Wake Forest / Duke / etc. are in the territorial range to become partners as well. I would not be surprised if they chose more than one partner for the long haul. It is their decision and they are not stupid!

What gratifies me is the willingness of CBF and its partners to face harsh facts and be creative in pursuing the dream many of us share. Instead of sitting by and watching everyone sqirm, I would hope we contribute, no only money, but any wisdom any of us have to achieve success in the long haul. I am doing this with my own struggling business. A part of the "tough get going" dream is that we know this will end and we all have a chance to survive. Rather than sell all my equipment and quit, I am looking for bigger jobs and more able-to-pay clients. One of these is certainly Government Projects as our taxes are used to improve the infrastructure of America.

[Dave Roberts]

[Gene Scarborough]

I like your thinking, Dave!!!

We are sometimes so focused on money that we forget the value of time and talent applied to help.

We get excited about sending mission groups to foreign places when, right now, that place could be just up the road at Richmond!!!

I hope we hear from others in the next few days on positive ideas. We can do it! We must do it!

We have a great purpose and the churches around us will greatly suffer if we don't do it!

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: