Time To Pull The Plug?????? What Say YE???

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

The counter shows 606 views to this point---yet about 10 people have commented over and over and over.

So let's shut up for a little bit and see what others have to say----shall we?????

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

I apologize for getting a little testy above.

I have tree jobs to do for the next 2 days and leave this question in your good hands.

[Bruce Gourley]

[Tim Bonney]

Thanks for the clarifications Bruce!

What I think Gene may want is a top down solution to what in Baptist life is a bottom up issue.

[Dave Roberts]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Haruo]

This is probably not just off-thread but off-forum, but since it came up here earlier I mention here that Mrs H and I are heading off to Community Bible Fellowship this morning, and I'll report back here whether I see any telltale signs of denominational allegiance.

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

Didn't happen today, we were late getting going and missed the bus by about a block, so today we will worship at the 6 pm service of . I gather this is originally a Ukrainian Pentecostal outfit, and their main services are "Slavic" (I'm guessing this means a mixture of Russian and Ukrainian) with headphones providing simultaneous English translation... CBF will just have to wait.

[Gene Scarborough]

It interests me that what you are saying above is basically: "Not that many church attenders really care about denominations anymore. It is a new day of going to the church your enjoy locally. Missions is a sidebar."

HOWEVER, there are still some who are getting tired of saying, "I'm not the kind of Baptist that the leaders of the SBC keep portraying. I am more open minded and not into the collusion of politics and religion of the Conservative Right."

Am I mistaken that, although the CBF has been far different than the current SBC, we have yet to declare it formally!!!!

I fully know that Baptist polity requires a bottom-up decision to participate in CBF, but when the average WMU lady still does not understand their former leaders now are CBF, "we have a problem, Houston."

What is the problem with making a formal declaration of independence?????

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Sadly, this has not yet been their decision to my knowledge.

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Gentlemen---get off the "shout" bit, please.

Those of us who participate in CBF know the distinct difference. Many in NC still have no clue how separate it is. We just need to do a better job of showing our love and cooperation to the general public.

They still don't get it--so how do you suggest we make it plain?????

Its not really an issue for you at your spot in Baptistland. It is a real issue in NC where I live and talk with local people.

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Sorry, Timothy, I just view large print as a way to fill the space on small comments.

I guess I am somewhat rebellious when people draw narrow parameters with a good and friendly discussion.

I totally agree that much of the filure to distinguish CBF from SBC is with too timid pastors not wanting any knd of trouble in their church. After all, when you are a paid prince of the pulpit you have a choice of laying low on important issues or speaking out.

I am more outspoken on matters of consconscience. The Autonomy of the local Baptist Church and Members are crucial to me. I like the motto of our Biblical Recorder: "Tell the story and let the people decide." Sadly, that no longer exists after Norman Jameson was forced to resign.

[Tim Bonney]

Well Gene, there isn't much of being a "prince" to being a moderate Baptist pastor in a moderate church. I've been there, and I can tell you that pastors are often "timid" because of the way the local church is set up. Basically many Baptist churches only want to hear what they already believe. They don't want prophetic preaching, they don't want to be theologically challenged, and they don't want to be told their are wrong even when they are.

And, since the pastor is basically viewed by many Baptist churches as a hired gun, they expect the pastor to tow their line and basically lead by following.

The pastor who sticks his kneck out in these churches finds that he is soon treated like a hireling employee rather than a pastor and is either made miserable or shown the door. So what is the benefit to the pastor in trying to straighten out the local church on their views of the CBF when what the CBF does has little impact on the local ministry of the local church? If things are going well in your congregation there isn't going to be a lot of incentive to stir the pot just to help out the CBF. Sorry but, that is the truth.

Yes, there are autocratic Baptist pastors out there (the Princes you are talking about). But they only survive in churches in which they can get an autocratic governance structure set up. Those pastors (unfortunately sometimes) are never afraid to say what they want to say. But you don't find those kind of pastors in moderate churches It is usually conservative churches only that give their pastors that kind of power.

Unfortunately I've not seen much balance between the two models in Baptist life.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Bruce Gourley]

Gene,

I'm thinking that maybe your problem with CBF (which is totally separate and distinct from SBC as the ABC is from the SBC) is that CBF does not have the marketing muscle and/or presence to inform all North Carolina Baptists of its identity, or even its existence. Another issue may well be that many SBC Baptist pastors in North Carolina don't want to know about anything other than SBC, and thus refuse to be educated.

- Bruce