Lauren Winner...

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Lauren Winner...

Postby Tim Dahl » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:56 pm

I'm listening to Lauren Winner's presentation to the CBF, via their mp3 link on the website. I'm loving what she's saying, but it's hard to hear beyond her valley girl accent. Where is she from?

I have no desire to really criticize her, for I love her content. But man, that accent! I'm having flashbacks to some childhood experiences with people trying desperately to sound that way. "Like...Like... Oh. My. GOSH!"

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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Ed Pettibone » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:16 pm

Tim Dahl wrote:I'm listening to Lauren Winner's presentation to the CBF, via their mp3 link on the website. I'm loving what she's saying, but it's hard to hear beyond her valley girl accent. Where is she from?

I have no desire to really criticize her, for I love her content. But man, that accent! I'm having flashbacks to some childhood experiences with people trying desperately to sound that way. "Like...Like... Oh. My. GOSH!"

Tim


Ed: TIm, I had the same problem listening live. Also, I kept thinking "Why didn't they get one of the bright young Baptist ladies who where all over the convention center". Yes, I agree in general that we as Baptist need to become better acquainted with folk of other christian traditions but I am not sure that showcasing them at a national meeting of a specific Baptist organization is the best way to do it.
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Tim Dahl » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:26 pm

Ed,

I couldn't agree more with you. I enjoyed, and agreed with, her presentation. But, I was thinking about some of the ladies that I went to seminary with. Most of them were a little bit older, on their second vocation, and were sharp as a tack. I'm sure we have women out there related to the CBF that would have made great preachers at the Assembly. But, those in charge of it thought she was the person God wanted there at that time (I'm assuming), so we go with it. Who ends up getting the speakers?

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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Bruce Gourley » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:22 am

I recommend that you express your sentiments to CBF personnel.
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby scottaerwin » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:23 am

Gentlemen,

i agree and disagree. There are absolutely many amazing young baptist women who can preach way better than Lauren. There are not, however, any young baptist women with the credentials of a Lauren Winner. She has authored several best selling books, earned a Ph.D. with Randall Balmer, and is a professor at Duke. We just don't have that many women who are as accomplished. That is sad on our part and shows how really behind the curve we are as Baptists. I can't think of very many baptist women who have had the opportunities that Lauren has had to make their marks. Molly Marshall, Julie Pennington-Russell, Sarah Shelton, Dorisanne Cooper are the only popular women preachers in moderate baptist life that I can immediately think of and we can't have them preach every time.

We need to start developing talent instead of educating them, and then give them no place to serve and develop their gifts. That would be a better place to start.

Just thoughts,
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:01 pm

I guess this all depends on what kind of keynoter are you looking for?

Most keynote addresses are given by "names" - relatively well-known individuals.

In terms of celebrity, I can't think of a female in moderate Baptist life with a comparable resume to Lauren Winner in terms of how many people are familiar with her books, etc. Frankly, there are not many men in moderate Baptist life who are equally well-known. For a keynote, I thought Lauren Winner was a good choice. I've only read parts of Real Sex but my wife has read all of her books.

Now, if you think the keynoter does not need to be someone well-known, then of course there are numerous young Baptist women that could be selected. But, the keynote speeches/sermons I've heard have been delivered by someone with a "name"
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:12 am

Bruce Gourley wrote:I recommend that you express your sentiments to CBF personnel.


Ed: Bruce, are you assuming that we have not expressed our sentiments to CBF personnel?
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:56 am

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:I guess this all depends on what kind of keynoter are you looking for?

Most keynote addresses are given by "names" - relatively well-known individuals.

In terms of celebrity, I can't think of a female in moderate Baptist life with a comparable resume to Lauren Winner in terms of how many people are familiar with her books, etc. Frankly, there are not many men in moderate Baptist life who are equally well-known. For a keynote, I thought Lauren Winner was a good choice. I've only read parts of Real Sex but my wife has read all of her books.

Now, if you think the keynoter does not need to be someone well-known, then of course there are numerous young Baptist women that could be selected. But, the keynote speeches/sermons I've heard have been delivered by someone with a "name"


Ed: Aaron when you say "Most keynote addresses are given by "names" - relatively well-known individuals", I have to ask relatively well known in relation to what to what ? I seriously doubt that a third of that audience had ever read any of Winners 3 publised books or had even heard of her before her selection for this assignment was made public. BTW Trudy did buy and stood in line to have Winner sign a copy of mudhouse I sabbath, Paraclete Press, Brewster MA. 2003

And BTW, Winners sermon was not by definition, the keynote address of this assembly.
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:37 am

Ed Pettibone wrote:
Ed: Aaron when you say "Most keynote addresses are given by "names" - relatively well-known individuals", I have to ask relatively well known in relation to what to what ? I seriously doubt that a third of that audience had ever read any of Winners 3 publised books or had even heard of her before her selection for this assignment was made public. BTW Trudy did buy and stood in line to have Winner sign a copy of mudhouse I sabbath, Paraclete Press, Brewster MA. 2003

And BTW, Winners sermon was not by definition, the keynote address of this assembly.


ABP described both Leonard and Winner as the keynote speakers. He opened, she closed. In concert terminology, we'd call Winner the headliner, the final act.

Honestly, I wouldn't expect you to have read or heard of Lauren Winner. I also doubt you've ever read anything by Donald Miller or Shane Claiborne. Many who are in full-time ministry are familiar with names like Winner. A good many have read Real Sex - pretty provocative title.

You're no spring chicken. I kinda doubt that you're completely "in-touch" with what many CBF ministers are reading and paying attention to.
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:19 pm

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:
Ed Pettibone wrote:
Ed: Aaron when you say "Most keynote addresses are given by "names" - relatively well-known individuals", I have to ask relatively well known in relation to what to what ? I seriously doubt that a third of that audience had ever read any of Winners 3 publised books or had even heard of her before her selection for this assignment was made public. BTW Trudy did buy and stood in line to have Winner sign a copy of mudhouse I sabbath, Paraclete Press, Brewster MA. 2003

And BTW, Winners sermon was not by definition, the keynote address of this assembly.


Aaron Weaver: ABP described both Leonard and Winner as the keynote speakers. He opened, she closed. In concert terminology, we'd call Winner the headliner, the final act.

Ed: And Aaron had, you been there you would know that Winner was not "the final act" .

Aaron: Honestly, I wouldn't expect you to have read or heard of Lauren Winner. I also doubt you've ever read anything by Donald Miller or Shane Claiborne. Many who are in full-time ministry are familiar with names like Winner. A good many have read Real Sex - pretty provocative title.

Ed: You seem to be tilting at windmills. I have nothing against Lauren Winner and I make no claim for keeping up with all that has been published in the past ten years. But of what I have read from that period in the area of church/Baptist life I find little that is not something of a knock off of what was written 30 or forty years ago. You may want to keep in mind that I was at SBTS in the mid 60's and again for 5 years in the 90's so I may not be quite as out of touch as you think. As for Academic studies of Sexuality have you ever read understanding Sexuality written by Kurt Haas and Adelide Haas, !987
At that time the authors where both Professors at The State College of New York. But I find practicing real sex more interesting than reading about it. :wink:

Aaron: You're no spring chicken. I kinda doubt that you're completely "in-touch" with what many CBF ministers are reading and paying attention to.


Ed: At least I am not wet behind the ears. And I make no claim for being "completely in-touch" with what many CBF ministers are reading and paying attention to", as I am not in close geographical proximity with "many" CBF ministers but yet I do attend Two regional CBF meetings and the Assembly almost every year. And I did speak with many CBF folk most of whom where not professional ministers last week in Charlotte. And need I remind you I have been involved with CBF since you where 12.
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:17 pm

Ed or should I say, Oscar,

If I said the sky was blue, you'd say: "But Arron I disagree. Here in BurntHills the sky is sometimes green"
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:07 pm

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:Ed or should I say, Oscar,

If I said the sky was blue, you'd say: "But Arron I disagree. Here in BurntHills the sky is sometimes green"


Ed: Aaron, I suppose you mean the "Oscar" as some sort of insult but since I know nothing about any Oscar other than the little gold statuettes given out by Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, I am yet to be insulted.

But perhaps if you put you mind to it you could win one of those for creative writing. I have never seen a green sky here in Burnt Hills (note - that is two words). However I did see a green sky once on a trip out west. If you do not believe in people seeing green skies check out this website http://www.weathernotebook.org/transcri ... /08/02.php

The only reason I so often disagree with you is that you often make claims that are inaccurate and at time downright wrong.

And BTW, go back in this thread and find who first disagreed with whom.
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:18 pm

This Oscar...

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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:10 pm

I think maybe I recall seeing that Oscar about 50 years ago when my kids where preschoolers perhaps on Sesame Street ?


Aaron, When you wrote " I can't think of a female in moderate Baptist life with a comparable resume to Lauren Winner in terms of how many people are familiar with her books, etc. Frankly, there are not many men in moderate Baptist life who are equally well-known."

I thought immediately of: www.btsr.edu/s/918/index.aspx?sid=918&gid=1&pgid=362 She was a grader for Karen Smith when I took SBC History at SBTS in 1990. She also worked With Dr. Chuck Bugg in leading our Formations for Ministry class. Winner's earrings sort of reminded me of the first time I heard Phylis preach at Saint Mathews Baptist Church in Louisville, although her earrings where some larger than the dangly crosses worn by Winner. Phylis has thanked me more than once in the intervening years for the criticism even though the earring where a prized gift from her Husband.

And here is a slightly dated review of Karen's Smiths work, When Phylis was giving me a bad time about my spelling, Karen said, it looks like my husband's English spelling. :)
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby scottaerwin » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:50 pm

Ed,

What in the world is wrong with you. You make everything about age, you make ridiculous comments. Nobody knows who Phyllis is, not even in CBF life, and to boot she is extrodinarily boring. and BTW you never explained your comment about a condom on my head.

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Ches Smith

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:16 pm

May be the Father of Karen Smith.

Ches was a contemporary of Ed Young at SEBTS.

Can anybody verify Karen as Ches' Daughter; and with Scott, What is Phyliss last name???
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:57 pm

scottaerwin wrote:Ed,

What in the world is wrong with you. You make everything about age, you make ridiculous comments. Nobody knows who Phyllis is, not even in CBF life, and to boot she is extrodinarily boring. and BTW you never explained your comment about a condom on my head.

scott



ED: Scott back up and see where the age thing begins in this thread. About the 9th post in this tread Aaron says to me " You're no spring chicken. I kinda doubt that you're completely "in-touch" with what many CBF ministers are reading and paying attention to."

As to the condom comment, that is what your avatar looks like on my screen.

And are you saying you are nobody? I hope you at least know who Philis is, to make such a rude assessment of some one who is not on this site. Of course I already tend to think you are full of yourself. As far as what is wrong with me not much other than my arthritis according to the Doctor that I saw to day. He says my Blood pressure is great, and that ALL the markers on a blood test in May are well with in the acceptable limits. And I won't need another colonoscopy or endoscopy until December of 2012 . :)
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby scottaerwin » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:24 am

Ed,

I am very glad you are doing well. I am sorry your computer screen is bad. My avatar is a silver back gorilla. I realize that BDW brought up age in this post, but it is an issue with you very often. I didn't mean to be rude to Phyllis, she is an amazing professor and extremely engaging in class. One of the best baptists have to offer, but it is not rude to say somebody is boring or that nobody knows them.

And yes, I am often full of myself, and I tend to think of myself as nobody in particular.

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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:38 am

Timothy,

Hey, I don't disagree with you that it was a slam. But let's not pretend like Ed is just some innocent older gentleman who I chose to randomly go off on with my "spring chicken" reference. I don't make a habit of making snarky age comments to seniors.

Ed, however, is a completely different story. You know how he is. He has a history of making unprovoked comments about my age. As even Scott Erwin notes, the guy makes everything about age. Rick Davis has similar comments to make not many months ago. He makes ridiculous comments and always has to disagree with anything and everything. It's a little annoying.

Ed can say "He started it" and I guess technically in this instance, I did - but I don't approach exchanges with Ed Pettibone as if we have some blank slate. I've interacted with him enough to know how conversations will ultimately play out - especially if Ed finds himself trying to defend some unsupported remark.

I will, however, not to make any further comments about Ed's age. I shouldn't have sunk to his level with that cheap comment. After a while, it gets difficult to interact with someone who is consistently so negative and disagreeable.

I really don't care to interact with the guy. I've tried.
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:22 pm

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:Timothy,

Hey, I don't disagree with you that it was a slam. But let's not pretend like Ed is just some innocent older gentleman who I chose to randomly go off on with my "spring chicken" reference. I don't make a habit of making snarky age comments to seniors.

Ed, however, is a completely different story. You know how he is. He has a history of making unprovoked comments about my age. As even Scott Erwin notes, the guy makes everything about age. Rick Davis has similar comments to make not many months ago. He makes ridiculous comments and always has to disagree with anything and everything. It's a little annoying.

Ed can say "He started it" and I guess technically in this instance, I did - but I don't approach exchanges with Ed Pettibone as if we have some blank slate. I've interacted with him enough to know how conversations will ultimately play out - especially if Ed finds himself trying to defend some unsupported remark.

I will, however, not to make any further comments about Ed's age. I shouldn't have sunk to his level with that cheap comment. After a while, it gets difficult to interact with someone who is consistently so negative and disagreeable.

I really don't care to interact with the guy. I've tried.


Ed: So don't try. That does not however mean that I will not react to your future post. It seems to me Aaron that your problem with me is that you have encountered someone who refuses to be intimidated by you and who is not particularly impressed by you.

By the way as we entered the convention center in Charlotte on Wednesday of last week we where taking an escalator to the top floor, I was wearing my ABC MEN T-shirt, when we where about half way up James Dunn Stepped on the down escalator and he said loud enough for all to hear "ABC MEN , those are some folk who have given us great support". I have no doubt that Dr. Dun was speaking generically about ABC and ABC MEN, although over the years, I have sat in the first three rows in a number of break out sessions in which he has be a participant and have asked a few questions, I doubt that he has any idea of who I am. In the book store I bought Brent Walker's book JAMES DUNN Champion for Religious Liberty with forward by BILL MOYERS, Smyth & Helwys Publishers, Macon Ga. 1999. Unfortunately I did not find him again although I carried it with me for three days in hopes of having him autograph it. :|
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:53 pm

Ed Pettibone wrote:
Big Daddy Weaver wrote:Timothy,

Hey, I don't disagree with you that it was a slam. But let's not pretend like Ed is just some innocent older gentleman who I chose to randomly go off on with my "spring chicken" reference. I don't make a habit of making snarky age comments to seniors.

Ed, however, is a completely different story. You know how he is. He has a history of making unprovoked comments about my age. As even Scott Erwin notes, the guy makes everything about age. Rick Davis has similar comments to make not many months ago. He makes ridiculous comments and always has to disagree with anything and everything. It's a little annoying.

Ed can say "He started it" and I guess technically in this instance, I did - but I don't approach exchanges with Ed Pettibone as if we have some blank slate. I've interacted with him enough to know how conversations will ultimately play out - especially if Ed finds himself trying to defend some unsupported remark.

I will, however, not to make any further comments about Ed's age. I shouldn't have sunk to his level with that cheap comment. After a while, it gets difficult to interact with someone who is consistently so negative and disagreeable.

I really don't care to interact with the guy. I've tried.


Ed: So don't try. That does not however mean that I will not react to your future post. It seems to me Aaron that your problem with me is that you have encountered someone who refuses to be intimidated by you and who is not particularly impressed by you.

By the way as we entered the convention center in Charlotte on Wednesday of last week we where taking an escalator to the top floor, I was wearing my ABC MEN T-shirt, when we where about half way up James Dunn Stepped on the down escalator and he said loud enough for all to hear "ABC MEN , those are some folk who have given us great support". I have no doubt that Dr. Dun was speaking generically about ABC and ABC MEN, although over the years, I have sat in the first three rows in a number of break out sessions in which he has be a participant and have asked a few questions, I doubt that he has any idea of who I am. In the book store I bought Brent Walker's book JAMES DUNN Champion for Religious Liberty with forward by BILL MOYERS, Smyth & Helwys Publishers, Macon Ga. 1999. Unfortunately I did not find him again although I carried it with me for three days in hopes of having him autograph it. :|


Whatever, Ed. The feelings are mutual.

Kinda ironic though that you then mention three men who hold a rather different opinion about yours truly :wink:
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:37 am

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:
Ed Pettibone wrote:
Big Daddy Weaver wrote:Timothy,

Hey, I don't disagree with you that it was a slam. But let's not pretend like Ed is just some innocent older gentleman who I chose to randomly go off on with my "spring chicken" reference. I don't make a habit of making snarky age comments to seniors.

Ed, however, is a completely different story. You know how he is. He has a history of making unprovoked comments about my age. As even Scott Erwin notes, the guy makes everything about age. Rick Davis has similar comments to make not many months ago. He makes ridiculous comments and always has to disagree with anything and everything. It's a little annoying.

Ed can say "He started it" and I guess technically in this instance, I did - but I don't approach exchanges with Ed Pettibone as if we have some blank slate. I've interacted with him enough to know how conversations will ultimately play out - especially if Ed finds himself trying to defend some unsupported remark.

I will, however, not to make any further comments about Ed's age. I shouldn't have sunk to his level with that cheap comment. After a while, it gets difficult to interact with someone who is consistently so negative and disagreeable.

I really don't care to interact with the guy. I've tried.


Ed: So don't try. That does not however mean that I will not react to your future post. It seems to me Aaron that your problem with me is that you have encountered someone who refuses to be intimidated by you and who is not particularly impressed by you.

By the way as we entered the convention center in Charlotte on Wednesday of last week we where taking an escalator to the top floor, I was wearing my ABC MEN T-shirt, when we where about half way up James Dunn Stepped on the down escalator and he said loud enough for all to hear "ABC MEN , those are some folk who have given us great support". I have no doubt that Dr. Dun was speaking generically about ABC and ABC MEN, although over the years, I have sat in the first three rows in a number of break out sessions in which he has be a participant and have asked a few questions, I doubt that he has any idea of who I am. In the book store I bought Brent Walker's book JAMES DUNN Champion for Religious Liberty with forward by BILL MOYERS, Smyth & Helwys Publishers, Macon Ga. 1999. Unfortunately I did not find him again although I carried it with me for three days in hopes of having him autograph it. :|


Whatever, Ed. The feelings are mutual.

Kinda ironic though that you then mention three men who hold a rather different opinion about yours truly :wink:


Ed: Do you mean, Dunn Walker and Moyers don't believe you show promise ? :wink: But then I have never hear any of the three mention your name. Yet what I have said on these boards is that you do show promise, but that you have not yet arrived.
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Re: Lauren Winner...

Postby Neil Heath » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:44 pm

Timothy Bonney wrote:This is something I run into in the local church fairly often. Younger people think they know what is right to do because we are the new generation, we are in, with it, and have the new and right answers. Older people also believe they know what is right for the church because they have the years of experience, wisdom, and historical context. The truth is we need both perspectives. And it is a hard bridge to gap.

So true, Timothy!
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