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While CBF has experienced a somewhat turbulent year with the release of the Illumination Project Report, I can't help wondering how much CBF has benefitted from the SBC's troubles with vacancies at the highest levels of the denomination. Any thoughts?

Saw this but was busy with sectarian business this past week.

I don't think CBF has gained much but you are in touch more than I. The naitonal CBF is about the budget size of one of the smaller southern state conventions, say, South Carolina. Far from the 40% that supposedly identified with the moderates back in 1991, the number of exclusive affiliate CBF churches is, what, less than a thousand, 2% of SBC size or so?

While the SBC has adopted some more moderate positions on issues, following CBF by a generation on such, one notes that the CBF has moved on to much more liberal matters. There is still considerable distance between us.

The CBF discusses survival. The SBC discusses the reality of a slow decline but still a huge organization and funding engines for cooperative work.

CBFers generallly detested PP already. His downfall was already factored into their decisions, no?

I sense that Mike Pence's appearance and political stump speech may have been a more pertinent part of this SBC than the PP issues. The Trump support right now is killing the witness of all Jeff Sessions supporters.

I don't believe there's been much movement from the SBC to CBF, nor would there be, despite the problems that exist within the SBC. Both groups are losing members, but I don't see a stream from the SBC into CBF, or vice versa. Other than a few attempts in some states and associations to force dually affiliated congregations off the fence, the status quo seems to be that 80% of the churches that support CBF also still give to the Cooperative Program through their state convention. The national group is distancing itself from a lot of the churches with the Illumination Project. I don't see much change in either organization.

One major change I see in both organizations is a great generational shift is underway. The reports from CBF last week were that the crowd was younger than ever before, and leadership is rapidly passing from the founding generation to a new generation. At the SBC, I see more long-term people still in leadership positions, though the election of this year's president may signal that the run of my generation has ended. Both groups are moving into church starting efforts, the SBC among African-American groups and CBF more with Hispanics, especially in the Southwest. It will be interesting to see how the future shapes out as the "nones" and "dones" occupy more of the religious landscape. I notice that CBF had a major institute on evangelism and SBC accepted a report of an evangelism task force, both basically acknowledging that the methods of evangelism from the past are not working as they once did. For both groups, the declining numbers of Caucasian births spell a lot of struggles for the future unless they succeed in becoming more multi-ethnic.

Are there any CBF churches in Washington state?

Ed: And then there are Historic ABC churches scattered all over the SBC "mission field" of the North which are welcoming and affirming of CBF folk like Trudy and I , some more so than some CBF churches in the South.

To be a bit more clear Trudy and I like many others are ABC/CBF some are CBF/ABC who are members of ABC churches. Each of the four churches where Trudy pastored are ABC, 3 of them having existed even prior to the founding of the SBC - ABC - or CBF . The 4th was founded by the Capital Area Association (CABA) of the ABCNYS (New York State) Region, in the 1950's.