Any one else going to Dallas

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Any one else going to Dallas

Postby JE Pettibone » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:30 pm

We will again be traveling by RV. I would appreciate suggestions from folk familiar with the area as to RV Resorts/Parks within commuting distance to the Assembly venue.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Dave Roberts » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:37 am

I plan to be there, but I am no help on RV info.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby JE Pettibone » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:12 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:I plan to be there, but I am no help on RV info.

Ed: I imagine we will run into each other in the hall ways as we have so many times in the past. :) I will still like to hear from any one who knows the area, about RV Parks or must see touristy stuff. I have found the DART web site, and Public Transportation looks pretty good. I did find one resort that put me on a list to call in case they have a cancellation. They have a bus stop at their gate.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Jim » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:44 am

I've been CBF since 1991 but I see it as having its foot on the first square inch of the slippery slope. It's all by way of going south now, along with the mainliners that have already forfeited any credibility as far as biblical Christianity is concerned. In my state, its major focus has been trying to convince churches to employ women pastors. There's nothing wrong with engaging women for pastorates, but the constant drumbeat is demeaning to them.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Haruo » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:47 pm

Jim wrote:It's all by way of going south now,...

Shouldn't that be "north"? I agree with you on the drumbeat btw. Reminds me of the special place in hell. But that's me.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby JE Pettibone » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:19 am

Ed: Jim and Hauro, would each of you explain that "drum beat"?
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Haruo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:18 pm

I do think the notion that hiring female pastors is something that churches need to be pressured into doing is not a desirable notion for a church body of a voluntary associational sort like CBF to be focusing on to the exclusion of other goals. Jim apparently thinks CBF is doing little but. I have no opinion on that subject. And I am not saying it is as bad as the "special place in hell" remark but it did remind me of it when I read Jim's complaint.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Sandy » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:20 pm

Haruo wrote:I do think the notion that hiring female pastors is something that churches need to be pressured into doing is not a desirable notion for a church body of a voluntary associational sort like CBF to be focusing on to the exclusion of other goals. Jim apparently thinks CBF is doing little but. I have no opinion on that subject. And I am not saying it is as bad as the "special place in hell" remark but it did remind me of it when I read Jim's complaint.


When it comes to specific issues, CBF's leadership moves away from the churchy language it uses to characterize itself, and can be pushy when it scolds its partnering churches on not being progressive enough. CBF's leadership uses a lot of churchy language like "engaging in dialogue," being "progressive" and "inclusive," "encouraging diversity," and thinking "transformationally," when it comes to missions, and the social ministry favored by many of its partnering congregations. But it is focusing a lot of support into educational institutions that are producing a lot of female graduates which the churches haven't yet really considered, in their Baptist autonomy that is also "celebrated" by CBF. At least, celebrated when its churches do what the fellowship leadership wants.

My question is about the "Illumination Project." If I read it correctly, the implementation of the policy is up to the executive director. It will not have to be approved by the general assembly. Is that the case? That the authorization for this comes from the governing board alone?
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby JE Pettibone » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:37 pm

Haruo wrote:I do think the notion that hiring female pastors is something that churches need to be pressured into doing is not a desirable notion for a church body of a voluntary associational sort like CBF to be focusing on to the exclusion of other goals. Jim apparently thinks CBF is doing little but. I have no opinion on that subject. And I am not saying it is as bad as the "special place in hell" remark but it did remind me of it when I read Jim's complaint.


Ed: Hauro, I have head No drumbeat related to the promotion of hiring Women. Nor have I heard of any churches being pressured to do so in either CBF or ABCUSA. But Since you say you have no opinion on that subject what is it that you agreed on with Jim?


While I can not hear the "drumbeat by CBF" that Jim says exist in Kentucky. I will acknowledge significant murmuring by well trained well qualified God called women, their spouses and others close to them who feel their pain when they receive yet another rejection notice saying
Dear _______, We are sorry to inform you that we have Selected another candidate to fill the Pastoral position In our Church. Please know that we where quite impressed with you resume and that we are praying that God will soon lead you to a position that will utilize your many gifts.

May God Bless Your ministry.
------ ---- -------------
Chair of the search Committee


Then the word is out, yes they hired another Male in keeping with their tradition.

Even though my wife had been an active participant in three CBF, regions and was even moderator in one of those. She had face to face interviews with only 2 CBF churches in 20 years. In the ABC She Pastored in 2 parishes , served as Minister of Education in one large church,and as Interim Pastor in another So I understand the murmuring. If their is a drumbeat to hire female pastors by CBF please give me some solid examples.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Sandy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:40 am

JE Pettibone wrote: If their is a drumbeat to hire female pastors by CBF please give me some solid examples.


The "drumbeat" is coming from the national group, the state leaders, and the educational institutions supported by CBF, which all seem to have quite a large number of female graduates waiting on church positions. And many of those are the same people who pushed for the Illumination Project, and a change in CBF hiring policy.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:17 am

Sandy wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote: If their is a drumbeat to hire female pastors by CBF please give me some solid examples.


The "drumbeat" is coming from the national group, the state leaders, and the educational institutions supported by CBF, which all seem to have quite a large number of female graduates waiting on church positions. And many of those are the same people who pushed for the Illumination Project, and a change in CBF hiring policy.


Sandy, do you have any evidence of the partner institutions pushing the Illumination Project. I have been in both state and national meetings and have heard nothing on this. I am interested in what evidence you have that I had never heard
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Sandy » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:08 am

Well, I think the support for it starts with the exec director. I'd have to go back through some of the news magazines and articles, but I believe both Linda Bridges and the staff at Ethics Daily have been supportive.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby JE Pettibone » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:13 am

Ed: Sandy there is a certain difference between "Support for" and your use of drumbeat as defined by Websters Dictionary.

Drumbeat + vociferous advocacy of a cause

The CBF leadership indeed supports the concept of women in ministry, including the pastorate, just as they support many other causes
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:17 am

Sandy wrote:Well, I think the support for it starts with the exec director. I'd have to go back through some of the news magazines and articles, but I believe both Linda Bridges and the staff at Ethics Daily have been supportive.


I can't speak for Dr. Bridges, but I have talked with other members of BTSR staff since the report came out, and they seemed largely in the dark on the project.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Sandy » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:49 am

Dave Roberts wrote:
Sandy wrote:Well, I think the support for it starts with the exec director. I'd have to go back through some of the news magazines and articles, but I believe both Linda Bridges and the staff at Ethics Daily have been supportive.


I can't speak for Dr. Bridges, but I have talked with other members of BTSR staff since the report came out, and they seemed largely in the dark on the project.


Well, she's the keynote speaker following the presentation of the Illumination Project at the Florida CBF spring meeting April 20. Perhaps she will clarify her position then.

My friends at South Main Houston seem to be very well informed about the project, but their pastor is on the governing board and was one of the committee members. I've seen some pieces by Aaron Weaver, that are very supportive, but now that I think about it, he's at CBF, not Ethics Daily.

So even though I've asked, I didn't get an answer. Does the general assembly vote on this or does it just get implemented?
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:54 pm

The report can be implemented by the Governing Board. It is not required to be submitted to the General Assembly.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Haruo » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:18 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Sandy there is a certain difference between "Support for" and your use of drumbeat as defined by Websters Dictionary.

Drumbeat + vociferous advocacy of a cause

The CBF leadership indeed supports the concept of women in ministry, including the pastorate, just as they support many other causes

I think Jim came up with "drumbeat", not Sandy.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby JE Pettibone » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:16 am

Haruo wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Sandy there is a certain difference between "Support for" and your use of drumbeat as defined by Websters Dictionary.

Drumbeat + vociferous advocacy of a cause

The CBF leadership indeed supports the concept of women in ministry, including the pastorate, just as they support many other causes


I think Jim came up with "drumbeat", not Sandy.


Ed: Hauro, when neither you or Jim answered my question about the use of "Drumbeat", Sandy tried to justify it with "The "drumbeat" is coming from the national group, the state leaders, and the educational institutions supported by CBF, which all seem to have quite a large number of female graduates waiting on church positions".

To which I replied "The CBF leadership indeed supports the concept of women in ministry, including the pastorate, just as they support many other causes[/quote]
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Jim » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:23 am

Since the CBF hiring policy has not been presented here (or I haven't seen it), this is from the CBF web-site, Illumination Project:

Old CBF Hiring Policy (Adopted 2000):
 As Baptist Christians, we believe that the foundation of a Christian sexual ethic is faithfulness in marriage between a man and a woman and celibacy in singleness. We also believe in the love and grace of God for all people, both for those who live by this understanding of the biblical standard and those who do not. We treasure the freedom of individual conscience and the autonomy of the local church, and we also believe that congregational leaders should be persons of moral integrity whose lives exemplify the highest standards of Christian conduct and character.

Because of this organizational value, the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship does not allow for the expenditure of funds for organizations or causes that condone, advocate or affirm homosexual practice. Neither does this CBF organizational value allow for the purposeful hiring of a staff person or the sending of a missionary who is a practicing homosexual.

Current policy:
The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship new hiring policy ensures employees will be Christians committed to the Great Commandment and Great Commission, upholding the highest moral character and ethical standards lived out in Christ-centered relationship both inside and outside the workplace. The Christ-centered hiring policy states that “CBF will employ only individuals who profess Jesus Christ as Lord, are committed to living out the Great Commandment and Great Commission, and who affirm the principles that have shaped our unique Baptist heritage.” Preference in hiring will be given to active members of CBF churches. CBF employees will also be committed to the CBF’s mission of “serving Christians and churches as they discover and fulfill their God-given mission” as well as its global missions distinctives of bearing witness to Jesus Christ, cultivating beloved community and seeking transformational development.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby JE Pettibone » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:09 pm

Ed: Jim, across these boards there have been several post with a great deal of discussion on this topic, where have you been?
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Sandy » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:31 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:The report can be implemented by the Governing Board. It is not required to be submitted to the General Assembly.


Does it get to be a topic of discussion, or is it a done deal?
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:26 am

Sandy wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:The report can be implemented by the Governing Board. It is not required to be submitted to the General Assembly.


Does it get to be a topic of discussion, or is it a done deal?

Don't know yet. There may be a business breakout, but I have not heard.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Sandy » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:18 pm

That doesn't sound like a scenario that is going to turn out well. An ad hoc committee appointed by a governing board implementing a policy that is clearly opposed by a sizeable majority of participants is a guaranteed controversy. I think the cost is going to be high.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:37 pm

Hey guys,

The FAQ that was mentioned earlier might be helpful. We added it a few weeks ago based on questions that needed some additional clarification:

http://illuminationproject.net/faq

With the Feb. 9 vote of the Governing Board, the new hiring policy is now official CBF policy (http://illuminationproject.net/hiring-policy). No additional action is needed as the development and adoption of policies is the responsibility of the Governing Board. Procedures--including the implementation procedure--are the responsibility of the Executive Coordinator. There's additional info on the FAQ page as well as a link to the CBF Constitution/Bylaws (which was adopted in 2012-2013 as result of 2012 Task Force's work, replacing the Coordinating Council with a new governance structure - Governing Board, Ministries Council, Missions Council, Nominating Committee)

Business at the General Assembly in Dallas will include, as in past years and consistent with the bylaws, presentation and motion for adoption of the 2018-2019 Budget and presentation and motion for adoption of nominees for the governance bodies. The business procedures process at Assembly is here in the 2017 Guidebook on p. 29: https://issuu.com/fellowship/docs/2017_ ... k-final/29

If I can leave one more link, go to http://www.cbf.net/assembly to register if you plan to attend Assembly. We'll be sending out the promotional mailer with more details about this year's worship, workshops and commissioning in the coming few weeks.
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Re: Any one else going to Dallas

Postby JE Pettibone » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:04 pm

Ed: I agree with Sandy on this one. And add, so let the Coordinating Council pay the bills out of their own pockets. I will be in Dallas because both, I want a first hand experience of the reaction of other Assembly attendee,s and we are where already heading west to Gillette Wyoming For a Family Motor Coach Association National Rally.

We will then hit Montana, North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio, thereby having been in all but The new England States via Motorhome. We have already done those by car. And hope to take the New coach up there next Year.
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