ABC-CBF Closer Ties?

[KeithE]

[Haruo]

So does Tony want ABC to stop being a denomination or for CBF to start being one?

[Tim Bonney]

[TrudyU]

[Tim Bonney]

And of course Ed I'm now out of the loop and really don't get much more ABC news than I do SBC. So I appreciate your analysis. I could see benefits for the ABC and CBF in some kind of partnership or even a merger. But I'd think it would be pretty complicated. And if, as you say, there isn't a lot of movement from folks to do so it might not get much beyond the dream stage.

[Haruo]

When I was a kid there was still a lot of talk about a merger between ABC and DOC. They published two hymnals together (1941 and 1970), and my dad was accredited to both as Campus Minister at the University of Washington (1953-1968). But it never happened. One of our Evergreen churches (United Church of Moscow, ID) is a dually aligned ABC-DOC congregation, but I think that's pretty rare these days. Kind of odd, because aside from generally more frequent communion I don't see much to distinguish the two denominations these days. Of course at least ABC doesn't have the Jim Jones debacle in its history...

At least one of our non-DOC churches (Good Shepherd BC in Lynnwood, WA) uses the DOC's current Chalice Hymnal.

[Tim Bonney]

Hauro,

It appears now that a DOC-UCC merger is more likely since they now share their mission agencies.

I was always told it was the issue of frequency of communion that became the sticking point. The agreement being discussed would have allowed each local church to do whatever they wanted to on frequency but apparently there was fear that someone could have to change what they are used to doing.

[Dave Roberts]

I think that closer cooperation between CBF and ABC would be a good thing. I do not see organic union as likely in the near future. Cooperating together in mission areas would strengthen both bodies.

[Sandy]

There was a time, shortly after I joined a CBF church for the first time, when I thought that merging into ABC-USA by CBF churches would have been a very practical and logical step. The churches are independent and autonomous, and the added membership and revenue would have been a nice boost to existing mission sending agencies, colleges and theological schools in ABC. In fact, on some message board at the time, might have even been this one, it was discussed. Several people saw a lot of difficulty, and expressed a fear that so many former SBC congregations coming into the denomination might upset some kind of delicate balance that existed, straining and stressing existing entities, based on the way ABC-USA is formed and structured. Realigning the schools and other entities wouldn't be an insurmountable difficulty, nor would absorbing the CBF executive office. The number of added churches would create the need for the increase in executive staff. And some of the CBF-related schools that are small, and scraping by to survive independently might benefit from the association with, or even merger into, existing ABC colleges and universities.

The only difficulty I see is what you would do with the CBF congregations who still support the Cooperative Program?

[Tim Bonney]

[Mike Stidham]

[Tim Bonney]

Mike, I wonder if this has to do with Missouri's unique history. I grew up in the St. Louis area at Kirkwood Baptist Church. In my study of Missouri Baptist history I discovered that up until the 1920s the Missouri Baptist Convention had been dually aligned with the SBC and the then Northern Baptist Convention. After the MBC chose to go with an SBC alignment only some congregations continued to maintain an NBC(later ABC)/SBC dual alignement. Some of those same congregations are now CBF/ABC. I think, for example, this fits FBC Columbia, MO and maybe University Baptist Church in Springfield.

If my memory is right the MBC dropped the dual alignment mostly due to financial issues which I always thought was a shame. It might have helped the MBC to avoid some of the SBC specific conflicts it later found itself in. You have some other odd situations where churches like my home church, Kirkwood Baptist, had an pastor who was an appointee of the American Baptist Home Mission Society as the founding pastor and yet some how ended up being an SBC congregation. Now they are CBF only. But if they'd maintained their ABC/SBC connection they might now be ABC/CBF who knows.

[TrudyU]

Ed: Mike when you say "That said, we have six or seven dual-aligned churches in the St Louis area alone that I can think of, two or three on the Illinois side and about four on the Missouri side", I need to ask what dual aliments do these 6 or 7 churches have? ABC/CBF / or CBF/SBC or SBC/CBF or ABC/SBC ? Or are they one of the Baptist 'flavors' and some other denomination? I ask because, I have experienced churches of all of these combinations.

[Haruo]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

I believe Mike was referring to CBF/ABC.

I look forward to ABC and CBF partnering and collaborating more together moving forward, especially with regard to the ongoing efforts together on long-term disaster response under the North American Baptist Fellowship umbrella.