David Burroughs examines CBF at outset of Paynter era

[Sandy]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

I wasn't speaking to the biases (I prefer "perspectives") of the presenters. They all certainly have their own! I was speaking to the fact the the conference was about more than homosexuality.

I'm sure some did tout the conference as a big step forward in the way that Sandy described it. Others touted it as a step forward in that the conference served as a forum for discussion among the participants. Remember there were multiple small-group break-out sessions during the conference where participants discussed what they had heard, etc.

I will concede that the totality of the messages relating to homosexuality did lean left. My friend Coleman Fannin was, while perhaps not completely alone, did not represent a perspective shared by most of the participants. My "balance" comment was that the conference addressed other important subjects that should be carefully considered in the broader conversation of sexuality and covenant.

I do wonder what you mean by "her perspective" referring to Suzii Paynter? I know what you mean by "her associations." You made that clear earlier in the thread (where we learned again of your clear dislike of George Mason....). But don't pretend that you know more than you actually know….

[Sandy]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

The CLC supported a state ban on same-sex marriage and has backed abortion rights restrictions (sonogram law). The CLC also made headlines when it took on Big Oil, in its opposition to coal-fired power plants, resulting in Paynter being featured on the front-page of the Wall Street Journal. Interestingly, her loudest critic during that controversy was a Texas Baptist pastor (also featured in the WSJ) who was later arrested and imprisoned for sexually abusing a dozen or more church kids.

[Sandy]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Sandy]

I'd like to think that Christian organizations would set their sights on operating in a manner that is more reflective of the ways of God than of the ways of the world. I'd like to think that, but I've never really seen it happen among the Baptists that I've been involved with, and I will add regardless of their theological or political stripe to that comment. I haven't had a lot of exposure or involvement with the CMA at this point, though what I've observed so far is a system with policies and practices that have a tendency to diffuse the kind of political influence and power that are part of setting the agenda for Baptists, both pre and post resurgence. The wife of a pastor who had a close friendship with a member of a search committee would be disqualified from seeking the position because of that friendship. Nor would the wife of a pastor who sat on any boards or committees of the denomination be eligible to be considered as a candidate for an agency executive position within the denomination. And even though there are only about half a million CMA church members nationwide, board seats and trustee positions are limited, and members are not recycled from one board to another. And yet, there are plenty of people available to fill the needs, and there's no clamoring or campaigning to get the seats. You'd get the impression these silly CMA folks are just overboard on this Christlikeness stuff, and they think that sort of thing lacks integrity, and stifles creativity and progressive thinking.

Oh, and BTW, I think I am on the record, a while back, for being critical of Morris Chapman while his wife Jodi served on a convention committee, and on an ad-hoc committee simultaneously, while her hubby was SBC Prez, and then Executive Director. She should have never been nominated, given the fact that he, too, served on a state convention board and SBC board simultaneously. And I am in the minutes of the SBC objecting to the nomination of Debbie Brunson to a convention committee while her hubby was a member of the exec committee. The motion was referred, and eventually became moot because she began serving on the committee before the referral was taken up by the appropriate committee. So my objections to "connectional preference" are not simply reserved for CBF.

I think I mentioned that I understand within CBF there's not the expectation that a wife who is a candidate for the leadership position would necessarily be in complete submission to her pastor husband's perspective. But it is not unreasonable to assume that she probably shares a lot, given that she is a member of the church which he has led to accept that perspective. It would be difficult, as well, to work together within the BGCT, CBF of Texas, and CBF as closely as they have with George Mason, and not share his perspective on the same issue.

I'll be praying that your wife's interviews and job search is fruitful in the near future. My wife and I have been there, and I know how frustrating it can be.

[TrudyU]

Ed: So Sandy why are you assuming that who one is married to must disqualify them from working in a related a feild, even when if neither will have supervision of the other. In my opinion one of the greatest errors that Christian organizations have made over the years is hiring individuals who's giftedness is primarily pastoral when the position is primarily administrative. From where I sit, it looks as if you would have been opposed to Mrs Paynter even if she had no husband.

I attend and participate fully in the church where my wife pastors. She is the pastor and I am a deacon. That could be a problem thus far it has not been here, nor was it in her previous pastorate.

I respect David Burroughs, for the work that he and Coleen have done with Passport and I would expect him to be supportive of the new CBF coordinator whom ever had been selected. But doubt that his public endorsement will have a lot of effect. Honestly it seems to me that it does more for his benefit as much as, if not more so than, for the Paynters. I am looking forward to seeing the four of them in June.

[Sandy]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Stephen Fox]

Scroll down to page 27 in the Q and A with Paynter.

I think she responds to Sandy's obsession with homosexuality as an issue obliquely but wisely.

Working together without getting sabotaged by one person's pet peeve or agenda.

Read this Q and A.

Paynter is going to be grand

http://issuu.com/fellowship/docs/2013ap ... 1?mode=a_p

[Sandy]

I think the whole interview can be categorized as "oblique." I don't see anything there that indicates much of anything. It's a lot of "visioning" language, as you would expect, with few if any specifics.

[Stephen Fox]

Sandy, I like the exchange with you and Dr. Thornton but if Suzii Paynter is oblique the SBC crowd you play with is willfully blind and intransigent. you don't have to go any further than the bogus inerrancy rubric they made hay with and it continues to sadden me.

[Sandy]

Stephen,
There are some interesting references in this thread. The documentation on the task force report, and the subsequent constitional revisions and reorganization of CBF that BDW provided shows quite an organizational and structural change that is taking place. Over the past year, several key staff also resigned. If I read the restructuring correctly, at least some of those job responsibilities are being covered in the work of the new, streamlined councils and boards being formed. This all points to what I see as a major downsizing. Of course, restructuring and "revisioning" sound better. And don't get me wrong. A Baptist organization going through a downsizing is not always a bad thing, though some of the favorite insiders might find that their job opportunities become limited. I would guess that CBF's new executive director will have a lot on her plate guiding the fellowship through these changes, before there will be a lot of "journeying together" and "connecting with people groups," and "visioning the future."

[Tim Bonney]

It is an organization, according to Christian Century, of 1,800 churches. How big an organization do they need?

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[TrudyU]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

Ed I wasn't talking about the size of the ABC but that the ABC had also recently adopted a new structure proposal.

[TrudyU]

[Stephen Fox]

http://abpnews.com/ministry/people/item ... nt-and-cbf

[Sandy]

Is CBF footing the bill for the exec's condo in Atlanta, and the plane trips back and forth from Austin?

[Dave Roberts]

[TrudyU]