Suzii Paynter, CBF Exec. Director nominee

[KeithE]

[Ed Pettibone]

KeithE says "I wish they would hold these meetings over the weekend for us working folk. But there is a slight chance I’ll be able to go."

Ed: Keith, keep in mind the second day of the weekend is a working day for about 35% of the attendees and many of the others generally do serious volunteer work on Sunday. I do hope you and Neil both make it to Greensboro. BTW, ABC does have its Biennials on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

[Sandy]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

The Christian Life Commission under Suzii Paynter has been perhaps the most effective and influential of all faith-based advocacy organizations at the state level. The CLC's successes have been due to its uniqueness in terms of approach and impressive in light of the political realities in a deep deep Red state where the GOP is rather divided these days into different factions.

Sandy calls the CLC "bland" and maybe it is "bland" by today's standards of faith-based groups popping off Chicken-Little Sky is Falling mass appeals for funding to fight the evil Republicans or the socialist Democrats. The CLC doesn't do that and doesn't have to do that.

I'll give an example of the effectiveness. Ten years ago, Texas was sentencing around 50 people to death. In 2011, only 8 were given death sentences. We know Texas loves the death penalty and still outpaces almost every other state.

But the very real decline in Texas is due to the passage of legislation that allowed for Life Without Parole. For decades, the only option a jury had was Life (w/ possibility of parole at a future point) or the Death Penalty. Rather than risk putting murders back on the streets 30-40 years later, juries have been quick to go the Death Penalty route.

The CLC was instrumental in getting the Life Without Parole option passed. They spearheaded that effort. Liberal groups never bothered for such a sensible, meaningful reform because they kept pursuing the abolishment of death penalty (like that will happen in Texas...). Conservatives have no moral problem with the death penalty, generally. But the proposal of Life Without Parole made fiscal sense AND was what families victims were demanding. So, now the state of Texas has that option.

I can rattle off other examples of the CLC's effectiveness. The CLC has successfully fought off efforts to slash funding to food programs for public schools. This session (and last session) they are targeting PayDay lenders and have a diverse coalition of supporters, conservative and liberal, Democrat and Republican, backing them. If anyone knows anything about PayDay lenders, then you know it's one of the sleaziest industries in America.

The fact is that the CLC has been effective among conservatives, is respected among many conservatives and is widely popular even among conservatives in the BGCT under Suzii Paynter.

[Tim Bonney]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Before dismissing me as just a CLC cheerleader, can someone name a moderate-to-progressive faith-based advocacy group that has found success in a thoroughly conservative state? How about a conservative faith-based advocacy group that has found success in a thoroughly liberal/progressive state?

I can't think of any. And I've studied the political engagement of faith-based organizations for some time now.

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[William Thornton]

ABP's opinion by Ircel Harrison states that the leader for the future "must" address a few things including human sexuality and the doctrine of salvation (will God condemn anyone to eternal damnation?).

It is a given on the former (we have already felt the rumblings there from the former CBF moderator). One observes here how excruciating it is to get any mod/lib to admit that anyone will ever be condemned (although no one has framed the question with Republicans being the focus) but not even I believe that mods will directly address soteriology. Closet universalism certainly would play better to the pews.

[Tim Bonney]

Really William? That just strikes me as being out of left field. (No pun intended.) Universalism is a Calvinist heresy and not one that people who believe in free will, as most moderate Baptists seem to, usually fall in the trap of believing. As long as we have free will then universal salvation ends up being an argument about everyone choosing to believe. I see very few Baptists arguing for that.

[Haruo]

"When we all get to heaven, what a day of rejoicing that will be!"

[Ed Pettibone]

[William Thornton]

[William Thornton]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Dave Roberts]

If I believe in free will, then I have to believe that God will allow me to walk into the darkness and not stop me, even if it means continuing to walk into that darkness for eternity. The questions that seem to be more in line with the 20-somethings questions involve whether God still hears the prayers of Jews, whether he recognizes the other children of Abraham--Islam, or whether he might welcome a Ghandi. The 20-somethings are not universalists. They question if there might be exceptions made through general revelation or among some who may live up to the light that they have.

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

Based on my experience, God knows what it will take for anyone's free will to lead them to salvation. I don't understand why God, a loving Parent, would allow one of his or her beloved children to die forever rather than do whatever it took to lead (not force) them to life eternal. I don't think any amount of idolization of the term "free will" will convince me otherwise. I believe God is not willing that any should die, but that all should be brought to life, and I think it's presumptuous to hold that a lunatic who prefers death to life has more power than the Creator of said numbskull. I think if our human mercy leads us to exempt the insane and those who can't tell the wrongness of their crimes from capital punishment, it's unchristian to believe that God's mercy is less merciful, particularly when God has the wherewithal to correct the disorder. So, yes, I am (not a closet but an open) incliner towards universalism. I was not quizzed about my soteriology when I went to be baptized and join the church, and I doubt if Fremont will use the foregoing post to hold a heresy trial and dedunk me. (I know UMC occasionally goes in for heresy trials, that's what a Book of Discipline will do at times.)

[Sandy]

[William Thornton]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]