CBF minister arrested

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CBF minister arrested

Postby Rvaughn » Mon May 13, 2019 10:48 am

CBF minister charged with sexual exploitation of a child
According to The Wilson Times, the FBI contacted the Wilson Police Department in April describing Heath as subject of an ongoing investigation. A search of his home on Tuesday produced evidence leading to his arrest.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Neil Heath » Mon May 13, 2019 11:14 am

Just clarifying that he is no relation to me. :)
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Haruo » Mon May 13, 2019 11:56 am

I've always wondered, Neil, how closely you were related to the candy bars.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Haruo » Mon May 13, 2019 12:03 pm

Rvaughn wrote:CBF minister charged with sexual exploitation of a child
According to The Wilson Times, the FBI contacted the Wilson Police Department in April describing Heath as subject of an ongoing investigation. A search of his home on Tuesday produced evidence leading to his arrest.

As early comments pointed out, the coverage is focused almost entirely on the damage done to the congregation and its members' Christian reputations, while after initially mentioning her there is no mention of the effects of the crime and/or its sequelae on the young woman, nor is there any clarification of her relation to the crime (did he have sex with her, or did he get her to take sexual photos, say, of younger children she was babysitting? Was she 16 at the time or was this some time back and she is 16 now? Etc.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Rvaughn » Mon May 13, 2019 12:18 pm

I didn't read the comments, but I noticed the same thing when I read through the article.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue May 14, 2019 10:04 am

Ed: Apparently Bob Allen, knew or knows only what he saw from the Wilson Times, possibly on a news service feed.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Neil Heath » Tue May 14, 2019 4:54 pm

Haruo wrote:I've always wondered, Neil, how closely you were related to the candy bars.

Don't own 'em, but I like to eat 'em!
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue May 21, 2019 10:07 am

”Now that abuse has been exposed in one of our own partnering churches, we cannot and will not ignore this issue but will continue to support all victims and proactively educate ministers and churches on their responsibilities,” Keesler said.”


I’m afraid education isn’t enough. I have required training on healthy boundaries and ethical behavior every three years. Education helps people who want to do the right thing. Education doesn’t help intentional predators to avoid misconduct.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby William Thornton » Tue May 21, 2019 12:15 pm

... neither does training.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue May 21, 2019 3:41 pm

William Thornton wrote:... neither does training.


You may have misunderstood me William. Agreed education and training don’t get rid of predators. Only accountability can. As long as you either get denominations where clergy aren’t accountable to anyone (congregationalism) or where official accountability exists but the rules aren’t followed (long standing situation in the RCC) the abuse continues.

It’s harsh, but in several denominations I know of (PCUSA, UMC, Episcopal and the ABC/USA profile system and maybe others) if you commit misconduct like this you are usually blackballed in the entire denomination. You are done. That is the only way to have a chance at keeping these kind of people out of ministry and from doing more harm.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby William Thornton » Tue May 21, 2019 4:43 pm

Agree with you on that. We have polity. What can be done under it is the question.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue May 21, 2019 5:23 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:
William Thornton wrote:... neither does training.


You may have misunderstood me William. Agreed education and training don’t get rid of predators. Only accountability can. As long as you either get denominations where clergy aren’t accountable to anyone (congregationalism) or where official accountability exists but the rules aren’t followed (long standing situation in the RCC) the abuse continues.

It’s harsh, but in several denominations I know of (PCUSA, UMC, Episcopal and the ABC/USA profile system and maybe others) if you commit misconduct like this you are usually blackballed in the entire denomination. You are done. That is the only way to have a chance at keeping these kind of people out of ministry and from doing more harm.


Ed: Tim does "keeping these kind of people out of ministry" really keep them from doing more harm, I don't think so. In fact if that is the only goal I believe it is short sighted.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Haruo » Tue May 21, 2019 7:45 pm

1) In the kind of congregationalism I have mostly been in, the clergy are supposed to be accountable to the congregation (or to its delegates, whether they are called a board of elders or a diaconate or (as at Fremont) the church council), but all too often this supervision falls into a practice no more successful than the monarchical episcopalianism of the RCC.

2) Ed, what (beyond keeping them out of ministry) do you have in mind? Keeping them out of the church altogether? The vilest offender who truly believes that moment from Jesus a pardon receives. "Such were some of you," says Paul. Or are you talking about something outside the church's jurisdiction?
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue May 21, 2019 8:35 pm

Haruo wrote:1) In the kind of congregationalism I have mostly been in, the clergy are supposed to be accountable to the congregation (or to its delegates, whether they are called a board of elders or a diaconate or (as at Fremont) the church council), but all too often this supervision falls into a practice no more successful than the monarchical episcopalianism of the RCC.

2) Ed, what (beyond keeping them out of ministry) do you have in mind? Keeping them out of the church altogether? The vilest offender who truly believes that moment from Jesus a pardon receives. "Such were some of you," says Paul. Or are you talking about something outside the church's jurisdiction?


Ed: Haruo, have you forgotten the thred a few years ago about a church in Greenwood Indiana that was by grace ministering to a former staff person who had taken advantage of a woman in their congregation and I took a lot of heat from most everyone on these boards for applauding them. So No I am not in favor of keeping them out of the church altogether. And no I am not suggesting Something outside the churches jurisdiction. The chuch should in my opinion be deeply involved in the offenders rehab.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue May 21, 2019 9:25 pm

William Thornton wrote:Agree with you on that. We have polity. What can be done under it is the question.


Right. Even if the CBF created a credentialing system, how would the CBF to get its member churches to cooperate.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Haruo » Tue May 21, 2019 9:35 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:
Haruo wrote:1) In the kind of congregationalism I have mostly been in, the clergy are supposed to be accountable to the congregation (or to its delegates, whether they are called a board of elders or a diaconate or (as at Fremont) the church council), but all too often this supervision falls into a practice no more successful than the monarchical episcopalianism of the RCC.

2) Ed, what (beyond keeping them out of ministry) do you have in mind? Keeping them out of the church altogether? The vilest offender who truly believes that moment from Jesus a pardon receives. "Such were some of you," says Paul. Or are you talking about something outside the church's jurisdiction?


Ed: Haruo, have you forgotten the thred a few years ago about a church in Greenwood Indiana that was by grace ministering to a former staff person who had taken advantage of a woman in their congregation and I took a lot of heat from most everyone on these boards for applauding them. So No I am not in favor of keeping them out of the church altogether. And no I am not suggesting Something outside the churches jurisdiction. The chuch should in my opinion be deeply involved in the offenders rehab.

I agree that that is desirable. I think it involves more skill than, without serious attention to education, most congregations probably have, and more visibility than most offenders, especially if they lack family ties in the congregation, are willing, maybe able, to tolerate.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue May 21, 2019 10:28 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Tim does "keeping these kind of people out of ministry" really keep them from doing more harm, I don't think so. In fact if that is the only goal I believe it is short sighted.


It can keep them from doing harm in a leadership role in the Church and abusing that power. But no, keeping from harming others outside of the church is more the place of law enforcement (if a law has been broken.)

But if you leave people who abuse others in positions of ministry then the church is just as responsible for the harm they cause as they are.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby William Thornton » Wed May 22, 2019 4:33 am

The relevant question is: should a convicted or confessed child sex abuser be considered disqualified from ministry positions. The SBC has broadly answered "yes" to this. A few churches are starting to be excluded on this basis.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed May 22, 2019 9:33 am

William Thornton wrote:The relevant question is: should a convicted or confessed child sex abuser be considered disqualified from ministry positions. The SBC has broadly answered "yes" to this. A few churches are starting to be excluded on this basis.


Yes, and churches need to know just what they are getting into if they don't exclude a sex abuser from being their pastor. If they knowingly hire such a person they become liable, both morally and legally, for all the harm that person may do while working for them.

The push back I hear is, "Can't God forgive and change a person?" Yes, of course. But this isn't about forgiveness. This is about our responsibility for protecting members of the church. You can be forgiven and yet still be unqualified to be pastor by your previous actions.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Sandy » Wed May 22, 2019 12:14 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:
William Thornton wrote:The relevant question is: should a convicted or confessed child sex abuser be considered disqualified from ministry positions. The SBC has broadly answered "yes" to this. A few churches are starting to be excluded on this basis.


Yes, and churches need to know just what they are getting into if they don't exclude a sex abuser from being their pastor. If they knowingly hire such a person they become liable, both morally and legally, for all the harm that person may do while working for them.

The push back I hear is, "Can't God forgive and change a person?" Yes, of course. But this isn't about forgiveness. This is about our responsibility for protecting members of the church. You can be forgiven and yet still be unqualified to be pastor by your previous actions.


That's really the key to getting the issue resolved. In a congregational form of church polity, accountability lies with the congregation that called the individual and pays his salary. If churches do their homework on candidates before hiring, they're not likely to wind up with someone who is sexually abusive. Likewise, if an incident occurs in a particular church, they have a responsibility to the victims to make sure the abuse is reported and prosecuted. The role of the denomination is what it always has been, to receive and provide information to churches about individuals who have been reported for abuse and to provide assistance and support to churches through the process of screening and calling candidates for pastoral and staff positions. If the first action of a committee when they choose a resume they like is to call the denominational office that keeps records of convicted abusive clergy to see if someone they picked out of their pile is listed there, then they'll avoid calling someone who has the potential to do the same in their church.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby JE Pettibone » Wed May 22, 2019 1:05 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Tim does "keeping these kind of people out of ministry" really keep them from doing more harm, I don't think so. In fact if that is the only goal I believe it is short sighted.


It can keep them from doing harm in a leadership role in the Church and abusing that power. But no, keeping from harming others outside of the church is more the place of law enforcement (if a law has been broken.)

But if you leave people who abuse others in positions of ministry then the church is just as responsible for the harm they cause as they are.



Ed: Tim, I said nothing about leaving sexual abusers in positions of ministry. I do however believe that a church that has developed a course of Christian disipline will be capable of assiting other professionals in the rehab process.

To me your suggestion of shifting it to "law enforcement" is a professional clergy cop-out, sometimes enabled by lazy congregations.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed May 22, 2019 5:21 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:
Ed: Tim, I said nothing about leaving sexual abusers in positions of ministry. I do however believe that a church that has developed a course of Christian disipline will be capable of assiting other professionals in the rehab process.

To me your suggestion of shifting it to "law enforcement" is a professional clergy cop-out, sometimes enabled by lazy congregations.


I know of no local churches that have developed a program or means of helping sexual predators and abusers. So that sounds like a bit of a fantasy.

And I'm not a congregationalist. It isn't the job of my congregation (or any in my denomination) to police clergy behavior. That is for our Bishop and the conference, and they do refer clergy who have committed misconduct to appropriate counseling and intervention if they will accept it.

And, heaven forbid that I should be accused of professionalism in ministry. I'm quite happy that my denomination has professional standards for ordination. I've been in free church circles where a person could get ordained if they could fog a mirror. So I'll be happy to accept the accusation of being a "professional." Thanks for the usual snark Ed.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby JE Pettibone » Wed May 22, 2019 10:50 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:
Ed: Tim, I said nothing about leaving sexual abusers in positions of ministry. I do however believe that a church that has developed a course of Christian disipline will be capable of assiting other professionals in the rehab process.

To me your suggestion of shifting it to "law enforcement" is a professional clergy cop-out, sometimes enabled by lazy congregations.


Tim B,: I know of no local churches that have developed a program or means of helping sexual predators and abusers. So that sounds like a bit of a fantasy.

Ed: So if you don't know of something it is fantasy, really?


Tim: And I'm not a congregationalist. It isn't the job of my congregation (or any in my denomination) to police clergy behavior. That is for our Bishop and the conference, and they do refer clergy who have committed misconduct to appropriate counseling and
intervention if they will accept it.

Ed: And this is a Baptist discussion board and Baptist employ a congregational polity. When you where a Baptist at SBTS did you ever have any courses with Dr. Wayne Oates? In the Louisville area the Wayne Oates Institute which is the outgrowth of a local church ministry started at St Mathews Baptist Church, it would be my preferred entity to make such a referral where still in that area.

Tim: And, heaven forbid that I should be accused of professionalism in ministry. I'm quite happy that my denomination has professional standards for ordination. I've been in free church circles where a person could get ordained if they could fog a mirror. So I'll be happy to accept the accusation of being a "professional." Thanks for the usual snark EdI call you quote]


Ed: When did I accuse you of professionalism in Ministry. But lets see the UMC has Professional standards but you don't want to be accused of professionalism? I am confused.

I have to confess I have been pretty much out of touch with churches having any thing like a professional Counseling staff but many of the Graduates of the SBTS School of Church Social Work, before Al M. declared that accredited Social work and Christian principles are incompatible, where frequently able to work effectively with various types of abuse. In the Pastoral Counseling courses that I had with Dr. Oates and Dr. Barnette great emphasis was made on developing a network of Professionals to who you cold refer. A pastor or other staff person needs to make appropriate referrals without giving the counselee the impression that they are being dumped
.
**** A pastor or other church staff person needs to make appropriate referrals without giving the counselee the impression that they are being dumped.
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Re: CBF minister arrested

Postby JE Pettibone » Wed May 22, 2019 11:13 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:
Tim Bonney wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:
Ed: Tim, I said nothing about leaving sexual abusers in positions of ministry. I do however believe that a church that has developed a course of Christian disipline will be capable of assiting other professionals in the rehab process.

To me your suggestion of shifting it to "law enforcement" is a professional clergy cop-out, sometimes enabled by lazy congregations.


Tim B,: I know of no local churches that have developed a program or means of helping sexual predators and abusers. So that sounds like a bit of a fantasy.

Ed: So if you don't know of something it is fantasy, really?


Tim: And I'm not a congregationalist. It isn't the job of my congregation (or any in my denomination) to police clergy behavior. That is for our Bishop and the conference, and they do refer clergy who have committed misconduct to appropriate counseling and
intervention if they will accept it.

Ed: And this is a Baptist discussion board on a site named Baptistlife.com and as Baptist we employ a congregational polity.

When you where a Baptist at SBTS did you ever have any courses with Dr. Wayne Oates? In the Louisville area the Wayne Oates Institute which is the outgrowth of a local church ministry started at St Mathews Baptist Church, it would be my preferred entity to make such a referral where still in that area.

Tim: And, heaven forbid that I should be accused of professionalism in ministry. I'm quite happy that my denomination has professional standards for ordination. I've been in free church circles where a person could get ordained if they could fog a mirror. So I'll be happy to accept the accusation of being a "professional." Thanks for the usual snark EdI call you quote]


Ed: When did I accuse you of professionalism in Ministry. But lets see the UMC has Professional standards but you don't want to be accused of professionalism? I am confused.

I have to confess I have been pretty much out of touch with churches having any thing like a professional Counseling staff for a while but many of the Graduates of the SBTS School of Church Social Work, before Al M. declared that accredited Social work and Christian principles are incompatible, where frequently able to work effectively with various types of abuse. In the Pastoral Counseling courses that I had with Dr. Oates and Dr. Barnette great emphasis was made on developing a network of Professionals to whom you cold refer. A pastor or other staff person needs to make appropriate referrals without giving the counselee the impression that they are being dumped.
.
**** A pastor or other church staff person needs to make appropriate referrals without giving the counselee the impression that they are being dumped.Also Tim, the UMC church where I was fitst introduced to "Singles Ministry" the designated Minister to singles (Russ Clark) was an effective counselor. And please note that nothing I have posted here is to be construed as suggesting that criminal abuse need not be reported to law enforcement.
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